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Old 03-04-2014, 07:54 PM   #1
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Track Wheel Setup - Square vs Staggered

If you have the option, would you use a square or staggered setup for the track? (DE, TT)
I'm using a square setup for autocross, but would like to know which setup is more balanced / faster for the track.

Current setup:
(4) 17x9 with 255/40-17
JIC Cross coilovers (Spr rate is 16k front and 18k rear - I think this may be too stiff)
Camber is -3.2 Front and -2.5 Rear
Toe is -0.15 degrees front and +0.15 rear

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Old 03-04-2014, 08:14 PM   #2
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I have run both ways over the last 5 years and compiled a lot of data. In my car staggered was nearly always faster. Not by a wide margin but enough to show a clear difference. Other drivers feel square is faster and the Texas guys all run square. I suspect there is a racing advantage by going deeper into a corner for the pass but on a TT or quali lap I would run staggered.
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Old 03-04-2014, 08:18 PM   #3
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Like most things in life - it depends.

I know drivers who are very fast running staggered and others who are equally fast running square. In my experience, there is definitely not a clear "best" configuration.

Depends on your driving skill level, tire choice, suspension set up, and the track. The main idea is that with a square setup the car could be faster on corner entry and may allow the car to carry more speed through the middle of the corner. The downside is greater drag which can reduce staight line speed.

So, you might be faster running square if you normally drive right at the cornering limit at tracks that have long sweeping corners and short straights where the increase in cornering speed will more than compensate for any loss in straightway speed.

Another aspect to consider is that many drivers who run square report that the car tends to oversteer more easily and you'll have to be comfortable and confident to drive at the limit with this handling characteristic.

I would suggest running both ways and see what you like best and which configuration is fastest for you, your driving style, your car, and the tracks you regularly run at.
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Old 03-06-2014, 06:53 PM   #4
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Alright. I'll be trying a staggered setup first.
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Old 03-06-2014, 08:10 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by com3dorm3 View Post
Alright. I'll be trying a staggered setup first, this coming Sunday.
Let us know how it goes and what you think...
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Old 03-20-2014, 09:16 AM   #6
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Tom? Tell us *why* Alex and Will went square at Chuckwalla a few weeks back? LOL the narrow fronts do NOT last in a race. They burn down 2-1 to the rears. Now tell me why I would run that config? Expense: I can now rotate the tires after burning down the left rear at Willow Springs. Move it to the right front for the next event.

Square. Always square.

Look up the tire sizing on the RSR's.. 12inch front and 13 inch rear?

Miata racing = square
944 spec = square
LMP1 and 2 cars = square

Yes, narrow, you can turn a few burners, but you will find a more consistent chassis running square.

We loved being protested at POC events for running square 5 YEARS ago
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Old 03-20-2014, 02:43 PM   #7
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I think there are valid reasons to go both ways. If you trailer the car and it only sees track time it would probably favor running square. Four wheel rotation is a definite benefit for tire management.

You can certainly go deeper into corners running square but... it does tend to put the car on it's nose, and acceleration out of the corner is a bit slower square from my data. Not by much, but maybe a few mph. It also tends to put a LOT more heat and wear in the front brakes. Even with a yellow/black pad choice we see the front brakes wear much faster square. I do like the controlled squat under braking and the more even brake heat distribution running staggered.

For tire wear, my car sees both track and some street duty running to and from the track. As a result I get very even tire wear front to back running staggered, averaging 40-50 HC per set of NT-01s. Some have dubbed me the tire management king because of this but I have always believed that sliding is slow, and pushing is slower. I pay a lot of attention to steering angles which reduces front tire wear.

Really well controlled braking zones, more even brake heat and bias, slightly better acceleration out of corners, and very slightly faster laps, probably sums up the reason I choose to run staggered most often these days. It seems like the right setup for me but certainly not for everyone. There are plenty of fast guys out there running square.

Cayman Interseries, Pirelli GT3 Cup, and Rolex GT3 RSR run staggered.
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Old 03-24-2014, 08:38 AM   #8
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Quote:
Cayman Interseries, Pirelli GT3 Cup
Cayman series gone.. cars handled like sh_t..

Pirelli GT3Cup -- group started by ex POC president and took old cup cars from POC.

new RSR/GT America for Tudor:

The width of the Michelin race slicks was increased by two centimetres to 27 centimetres at the front and by ten millimetres at the rear axle to now measure 31 centimetres

(SQUARE) LOL
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Old 03-24-2014, 10:41 AM   #9
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So - tell me more how you could even fit a square set up on these cars. I've got two complete sets of wheels and tires for the boxster although shod with different tires right now - it could be a possibility to run square.
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Old 03-24-2014, 11:02 AM   #10
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They bolt right on.. especially with stock shocks.

Here's the rub:

If the car is understeering and you have NO adjustment? Throw the rears on the front to increase front grip.

Now you have to much front grip? disconnect the rear bar.

What do you have to lose by test fitting? 15min. of your time?
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Old 03-24-2014, 11:03 AM   #11
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We recently had a THIRTY TWO (3-2/32) CAR Boxster Spec field race in Texas. I believe ONE car was not square out of those 32 (he didn't get the memo 5 years ago)
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Old 03-24-2014, 11:12 AM   #12
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Old 03-24-2014, 11:12 AM   #13
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17X9 Cup1 rims on all four corners
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Old 03-24-2014, 11:13 AM   #14
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That is how we first tested it in 2005!! Had a lot of 964 and 993 wheels laying around
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Old 03-24-2014, 11:22 AM   #15
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Two cars from the shop.. square, so you can see how the 8.5 fits the front (it fits better than it does on the rear) lol




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Old 03-24-2014, 11:26 AM   #16
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Dare I show everyone our "15inch" square car? lol

How many people will tell me "you can't do that" lol
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Old 03-24-2014, 11:28 AM   #17
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Big? remind me to CALL YOU when I'm in a bar fight in Hoboken!!
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Old 03-24-2014, 11:30 AM   #18
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Are the spec Boxster cars allowed to replace or have adjustable sway bars?
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Old 03-24-2014, 11:34 AM   #19
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Yes, we run GT3 front 5 way adjustable bar and Tarett 4 way adjustable rear
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Old 03-24-2014, 11:39 AM   #20
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but... you can run your street car square and disconnect/reconnect as needed. It takes 10min to disconnect the rear bar and reconnect. Zip tie the drop link that you remove to the toe link. They move at the same rate.

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