No power gain from Underdrive Pulley?...

[j.fro]

Are we talking 4" or 5" UDP's?? Both are out there.
Also, I think I remember Raby commenting that the UDP was the one mod he found to produce hp... But only 5hp.
FWIW, I've had a 5" on my car for 43,000 miles & 5 autocross seasons.

[Steve Tinker]

I think there is some misunderstanding regarding the underdrive pulley.

There possibly is a 5hp gain with the reduced parasitic loss, but the gain is @ low to mid range rpm, not max rpm. A good dynamometer chart would show only a slight bump in HP @ 3,000 - 4,500rpm not @ 7,000rpm.
And dyno charts with compensation numbers "built in" for gearbox / transmission losses are pure nonsensical - who wants to prove that a gearbox soaks up 12% or 15% or 20% of the rated engine power output, let alone adding in different daytime barometric pressure, temperature and rolling road calibration changes.

[Gelbster]

Originally Posted by Steve Tinker

I think there is some misunderstanding regarding the underdrive pulley.

There possibly is a 5hp gain with the reduced parasitic loss, but the gain is @ low to mid range rpm, not max rpm. A good dynamometer chart would show only a slight bump in HP @ 3,000 - 4,500rpm not @ 7,000rpm.
And dyno charts with compensation numbers "built in" for gearbox / transmission losses are pure nonsensical - who wants to prove that a gearbox soaks up 12% or 15% or 20% of the rated engine power output, let alone adding in different daytime barometric pressure, temperature and rolling road calibration changes.

Makes perfect sense.

[itsnotanova]

I wish Jake Raby was still allowed to comment on here. I'm sure he has a lot to say about this

[Porsche9]

Originally Posted by itsnotanova

I wish Jake Raby was still allowed to comment on here. I'm sure he has a lot to say about this

Did I miss something?

[itsnotanova]

Originally Posted by Porsche9

Did I miss something?

Wayne doesn't want Jake on his forums anymore.

[rfuerst911sc]

I have a few comments to ad , I will preface that I am a Jake raby fan for many reasons . Jake does not do well with idiots and because of that comes across as brash and arrogant . To talk to him in person and to deal with him on a daily basis is quite different .
I have told Jake many times he is a nut , but I mean that as a compliment . He is 150 percent driven on taking something that is weak , abuse the heck out of it to break it and then come up with a solution. In many cases we can repair our cars because of him. No I am not a paid spokesman just a very happy customer .
I actually talked to Jake after " the ban " and I was quite surprised . I have been a long time customer and fan of pelican parts . Great forums , completive pricing it is a great combo . But by banning competition seems petty to me but it is not my forum . I can contact Jake any time and get a reply generally within hours.
There are exhausts out there that can add HP/torque but most are overated . I base this on real world data on Jake's dyno using OEM , dansk , ghl on my 3.2 and 3.6 beast . I have an under drive pulley on mine also , installed by Jake . I was never promised any HP increase but was told quicker throttle response would be a result and easier on all the ancillary belt driven parts .
Ok end of my speech but I believe this forum is now less useful than it could be because of the ban . Go falcons !!!

[Lapister]

That UK guys video on his tip/Dyno after installing the UDP pretty much backs up Steve Tinkers post. It frees up HP but doesn't give you anymore than what you had. In his case before /after dynoed the same. Youtube- Road and race.

[heliguy]

Has anyone seen this on Suncoast?

Boxster Performance Exhaust
Agency Power has developed and tested this exhaust system for the Porsche 986 Boxster. The all T304 stainless steel exhaust features a mirror polished finished, thick flanges, OEM fit, and an incredible sound. Producing an amazing sound which gives the Porsche a nice race tone, this exhaust is still comfortable for daily driving. As tested on a Mustang Dyno, the Agency Power Porsche 986 boxster exhaust produced an impressive 23HP and 11ft/lbs of torque.
Not Yet Rated | Write the First Review
#AP-986-170
$695.00


I'm not sure I believe their claimed HP increase.

[Nine8Six]

Originally Posted by heliguy

Has anyone seen this on Suncoast?
http://www.********************************************** ******.com/product/AP-986-170.html
I'm not sure I believe their claimed HP increase.

Blk on white bud: "...produced an impressive 23HP and 11ft/lbs of torque"

Just bought two; one for each side. Not sure how I'll install them yet but I'll get a total of +46HP when I do

[BrokenLinkage]

Wait a minute. This forum, the world's largest compendium of boxster knowledge and support, has uninvited Jake Raby, generally regarded as the world's foremost expert on the boxster engine? WTF?
Yes, he can be arrogant, brusque, tintillating, and self-serving, sometimes in the same post. But the same could be said of many of our participants. And unlike most of the others, he is also generous with knowledge and insight that took him years of intelligent, focused, and sustained effort to obtain.
Regardless of bruised feelings or inherent potential conflicts of interest due to products he helped develop, he never hawked his services here. I for one appreciated the fact that he cut through a lot of BS with observations based on actual experimental testing. When a thread was getting run over by people with a sample size of one relating their individual experience or personal opinions, it was refreshing to have him weigh in with factual data and observations based on a sample size of thousands of engines. This would often be data that No One else would ever be in a position to obtain, much less share.
I do not mean by this to discount the incredible contibution of other members, such as JFP and ByPro, that have shared proprietary information that represents equally hard-won business specific knowledge for them.
But most of us on this site are just duffers, and to exclude someone with Jake's wealth of experience hurts us all. When I chose a surgeon, I want someone with skills in the OR and good outcomes; bedside manner is optional. When I get advice on an engine, I want it to come from an expert on that engine, even if I don't always like or even agree with what he says or how he says it.
Wayne, I am eternally grateful for your beneficence in setting up this site, but to exclude Jake was a seriously bad move, and devalues the site.

[Gelbster]

This Thread is a perfect example of what happens without Jake. Or someone to quote him. Lots of well-intentioned opinion or 1 time anecdotes. Collectively ,if we had hundreds of Posts on the same issue,maybe the consensus (there never is one !) may be useful.
By contrast ,Jake usually has a dyno test or some other data to contribute.That gets us back on the right track.Until some argumentative type starts accusing him of greed/arrogance/whatever. Then he gets mad and it all falls apart. The problem isn't Jake, it is lack of a Moderator to just delete Posts that are focused on baiting Jake.
This Forum is a much poorer resource as a result of excluding him. Before you dump the best player, doesn't the smart Team Manager line up a replacement? Any suggestions? Right. There isn't anybody.
And by the way ,I have never bought anything from him. But I could not have rebuilt my engine without his Posts.And neither can any one else. His work is a huge part of the collective knowledge on the M96.Nobody else comes close.
Like it or not, we need him way more than he needs us.
Jake thank you for your many useful contributions here.

Originally Posted by BrokenLinkage

Wait a minute. This forum, the world's largest compendium of boxster knowledge and support, has uninvited Jake Raby, generally regarded as the world's foremost expert on the boxster engine? WTF?
Yes, he can be arrogant, brusque, tintillating, and self-serving, sometimes in the same post. But the same could be said of many of our participants. And unlike most of the others, he is also generous with knowledge and insight that took him years of intelligent, focused, and sustained effort to obtain.
Regardless of bruised feelings or inherent potential conflicts of interest due to products he helped develop, he never hawked his services here. I for one appreciated the fact that he cut through a lot of BS with observations based on actual experimental testing. When a thread was getting run over by people with a sample size of one relating their individual experience or personal opinions, it was refreshing to have him weigh in with factual data and observations based on a sample size of thousands of engines. This would often be data that No One else would ever be in a position to obtain, much less share.
I do not mean by this to discount the incredible contibution of other members, such as JFP and ByPro, that have shared proprietary information that represents equally hard-won business specific knowledge for them.
But most of us on this site are just duffers, and to exclude someone with Jake's wealth of experience hurts us all. When I chose a surgeon, I want someone with skills in the OR and good outcomes; bedside manner is optional. When I get advice on an engine, I want it to come from an expert on that engine, even if I don't always like or even agree with what he says or how he says it.
Wayne, I am eternally grateful for your beneficence in setting up this site, but to exclude Jake was a seriously bad move, and devalues the site.

[10/10ths]

Wow! I'm late to this party.

Jake,
Thanks for posting and clearing this up.

If you read my post history, you will discover that I'm a middle aged guy who bought his dream car about two years ago. That car was a 2004 Boxster S "50 Years of 550 Spyder Edition."

I bought THAT car on purpose. I wanted THAT specific car.

One reason I settled on a 2004 Boxster, forget the SE stuff, was that it was the last car with a spare tire, a dip stick, and it had an IMS bearing that can be serviced with Jake's "Solution" for a permanent fix.

Also, I spoke with Judd, one of Jake's associates, for an HOUR on the phone before purchasing the car. He didn't know me from Shinola, and he was NOT getting a dime, yet he spoke to me for an HOUR on the phone before I had even bought a Porsche.

He helped me understand the failure points of these cars and the services they provide to owners.

I bought the car. I then chose to immediately ship my car to Jake and have them perform a list of preventative maintenance services.

I have previously posted how wonderful that experience was and won't rehash it here. If anyone is interested, please search my post history and read about it.

Jake Raby has made my life better. My life is more fun. I have more knowledge about machinery. I owe a lot to Mr. Raby.

To discover that Jake Raby is no longer posting on this forum and sharing his invaluable knowledge with all of us in the Porsche world makes me very sad.

Censorship is wrong. Self-censorship is a slippery slope.

I get the "business" aspect of all of this. I do. But as a car guy, who loves my Boxster, I just want to share the joy of ownership I experience every day with everyone on the planet who wants to own one of these cars.

Jake Raby makes owning these cars better, safer, more fun, and saves us all a lot of money, time, and walking home from a steaming pile at 3am, in the rain, a thousand miles from nowhere.

Thank you, Jake Raby.

[heliguy]

Originally Posted by heliguy

Has anyone seen this on Suncoast?

Boxster Performance Exhaust
Agency Power has developed and tested this exhaust system for the Porsche 986 Boxster. The all T304 stainless steel exhaust features a mirror polished finished, thick flanges, OEM fit, and an incredible sound. Producing an amazing sound which gives the Porsche a nice race tone, this exhaust is still comfortable for daily driving. As tested on a Mustang Dyno, the Agency Power Porsche 986 boxster exhaust produced an impressive 23HP and 11ft/lbs of torque.
Not Yet Rated | Write the First Review
#AP-986-170
$695.00


I'm not sure I believe their claimed HP increase.

[edc]

Looks just like the usual exhausts which you see on eBay and are sourced via alibaba. Even the stock picture is the same. Buy enough and you can brand and stamp what we logo you want on there.

[Gelbster]

Agreed. The Jake-baiters won. We lost. Jake has a Facebook page that he seldom promotes on Forums because he respects the Forum hosts. Lots of Tech info there.
All Pelican will achieve is to redirect Boxster people there and to Rennlist/RennTech.A little more Moderation may have prevented this? That is not censorship.This is Pelican's Forum .They have the right to eliminate nasty comments. And " nasty" is just whatever they wish to say it is.I'm O.K. with that -it is just respect of Pelican's Property Rights.
I write this with great regret. And I think I may hold the record for linking Pelican Parts and articles in my posts here and on Rennlist.
If you want a sample of how bad a Porsche Forum is without someone like Jake, read posts by some(not all)"experts" at 6Speedonline. They sound convincing but are often just wind bags.By contrast I find RennTech faultless for any technical subject.yes, -Tech, not list.

Quote from 10/10ths above:
"To discover that Jake Raby is no longer posting on this forum and sharing his invaluable knowledge with all of us in the Porsche world makes me very sad.

Censorship is wrong. Self-censorship is a slippery slope.

I get the "business" aspect of all of this. I do. But as a car guy, who loves my Boxster, I just want to share the joy of ownership I experience every day with everyone on the planet who wants to own one of these cars.

Jake Raby makes owning these cars better, safer, more fun, and saves us all a lot of money, time, and walking home from a steaming pile at 3am, in the rain, a thousand miles from nowhere.

Thank you, Jake Raby."

[BrokenLinkage]

Jake- thank you, both for your prior contributions, and for (once again) clarifying the issue, in a thread that I was helping to derail. I respect your decision but wish you could see your way forward to remain active on the forum. My apologies to the OP.

Now for a question, for anyone qualified to answer. The crankshaft pulley bolt is deemed disposable, to be replaced once removed (ie fitting an UDP), presumedly b/c of thread deformation in turning it 90° past the torque value. Does this process imply that no thread locker or other potential lubricant should be used? And has anyone contemplated lightening the rotating shaft a bit by using a harder but lighter titanium bolt?
Please pardon my ignorance if this seems stupid.

[Gelbster]

Yes, because it is a deformable stretch bolt.
This bolt is Porsche part number 900.082.085.09
You should not use a generic grade 8 bolt of the same size:
M16 x1.5 x 60mm -but I suspect a lot of people do and just slap some loctite on it !
The correct bolt and belt (depends on specific pulley diameter)should come in the kit .

Here is an example of what we miss when the experts(not me !!) are not around:

"Tightening the crank bolt is not the issue, but if and when you go in for an IMS swap, or some repairs involving resetting the cam timing, be prepared for a significant up charge as the shop is going to have to remove the under drive pulley and reinstall a factory unit in order to lock the crank at TDC, that is assuming you have not removed too much of the pin boss from the engine cases when you installed the pulley. If you did, the trans will have to be pulled so that the engine can be locked at TDC from the flywheel. Oh, and the latter adds roughly $3K to the bill of whatever else is being done. "
Nobody mentioned this here !!!
And guess what happened when this was posted by a very well respected pro M96 mechanic - people dickered with him. And exactly the same happened when I re-posted this helpful caution. Yup - someone who clearly is not an M96 expert dickers with the wise advice - again ! And the expert patiently explains his point again to help us avoid needless expense.
My point is that without a few experts, a Forum like this is gets filled with irrelevant or uninformed 'comment'. a.k.a. -The inmates run the Asylum.

[njbray]

Sad that Jake Baby will no longer be posting!
I figure that 98% of us on this site are enthusiastic amateurs and have benefitted greatly from the 'pros' who help us out and answer our questions!
I greatly value his wisdom especially as I am having a lot of fun driving around a car that has 'his' IMS, oil plug, filter and about 9 liters of his oil splashing around behind me!

[WorkInProgressK]

Originally Posted by Gelbster

Yes, because it is a deformable stretch bolt.
This bolt is Porsche part number 900.082.085.09
You should not use a generic grade 8 bolt of the same size:
M16 x1.5 x 60mm -but I suspect a lot of people do and just slap some loctite on it !
The correct bolt and belt (depends on specific pulley diameter)should come in the kit .

Here is an example of what we miss when the experts(not me !!) are not around:

"Tightening the crank bolt is not the issue, but if and when you go in for an IMS swap, or some repairs involving resetting the cam timing, be prepared for a significant up charge as the shop is going to have to remove the under drive pulley and reinstall a factory unit in order to lock the crank at TDC, that is assuming you have not removed too much of the pin boss from the engine cases when you installed the pulley. If you did, the trans will have to be pulled so that the engine can be locked at TDC from the flywheel. Oh, and the latter adds roughly $3K to the bill of whatever else is being done. "
Nobody mentioned this here !!!
And guess what happened when this was posted by a very well respected pro M96 mechanic - people dickered with him. No moderation applied.

Where is the nut? Then it's actually called a screw...(open a bags of worms)

Wait. IMS swap but they charge extra for removing transmission? I don't understand, its part of the work.

About the Drama. One specialist does help have good information, but anyone with enough wits to read through information and willing to try different things will manage to save some money and end up with a more reliable car. I am also guilty of asking a specific information, but not after taking 4hrs of my life to search through bentleys and online. I am not expecting the answer, but anything can help me guide to the right information. Jake if he is that good(I haven't seen his contribution yet) should just open a for pay forum like other youtube mechanics to answer questions. Set up a patreon or such. You should expect free forums to have misinformation and you have filter it. This is what I don't like about owning this car. This car is not more complicated then a modern Honda civic. It just have huge failure point. Nissan Road Racing is my place and since the most common engine is extremely reliable and no one can really exploit any weakness we don't have drama talks. We just share our builds and our research on making the fastest nissan we can.

Can we get back to the fact that smaller crank pulleys are not worth it? Why not replace the pulley on the specific accessory rather then the crank on? Water+ powersteering. Done and Done. You can lock and have the non cavitating factor. Everyone is happy.

JFYI before the pitchforks. I might seem that I think I am always right. That is not 100% true. I am an Mechanical Engineer at an early part of my career and I have a very good grasp on anything mechanical. Giving my honest opinion, based on knowledge and experience, might be wrong and I would love to know with examples. I just see it as a mechanical assembly vs seeing it as a 16 year old Porsche.