RIP Paul Walker - killed in a CGT's passenger seat

[Perfectlap]

^ There's already a messy trail for Porsche in the Courts. The previous suit by the family of the Rennlister who died at the oval track produced conflicting testimony by Porsche's own engineers of why the car was not designed with stabilitiy management (along with some of the GT 911's). The answers were not good ones, something along the lines of commercial need over safety. That's basically like opening up the check book from the witness stand. A better question would have been why the engines weren't tweaked towards more 'street-oriented' mapping making it a bit more manageable at low end. Too much cowbell for the average set of wrists..

p.s.
I went digging through some of the Rennlist threads to see if a previous owner of the car had chimed in and sure enough Graham Rahal was posting on it, it seems he's pretty upset about it all. I guess it makes you think that easily could of have been me.

[trimer]

Originally Posted by southernstar

I agree with all who suggest that we should await some concrete evidence before jumping to conclusions. We should also understand that there is a very strong prospect of litigaton by the families of both of these men - and that as Porsche will have much deeper 'pockets', I suspect that there will be a strong motivation to find some way to blame the manufacturer. Remember the Audi 5000'sudden acceleration' fairy tail? It led to inflammatory coverage on 60 minutes and at least one successful lawsuit, even though the 'science' was a joke. Stand by folks.....

Brad

What kind of litigation could these family proceed with? Suing for driving a car? Im not trying to be a smart as% and this is not an attack on your post but in all seriousness, what possibly could they sue for? A blown tire? sue for the fact that they were driving a 600 plus horsepower car and Porsche shouldnt build that fast of a car? THis will be interesting to see.

[coreseller]

Litigation on this without a doubt will occur.

Another CGT crashed in 2006 at a track day event at California Speedway, the settlement was for $4.5 Million. The contributions to the settlement were about 49% from the estate of the driver, 41% from the track owners and the event organizers, 8% from Porsche, and 2% from the driver of the Ferrari that was claimed to have triggered the crash.

Tracy Rudl filed the lawsuit alleging the wrongful death of her husband, Corey Rudl, who was a passenger in the CGT owned and driven by Ben Keaton at the Ferrari Owners Club track day. Rudl was represented by attorney Craig McClellan, a former racer and a successful plaintiffs’ attorney from San Diego. As the CGT was traveling at about 130 mph on the straightaway, a Ferrari entered the track at a relatively slow speed. Keaton swerved to avoid it and the Porsche skidded into a concrete barrier wall, killing both men. The wall had been placed closer to the track than its original position, in order to enlarge the area behind it for use as a children’s play area during an earlier NASCAR race.

Discovery goes on and on but in the end it's going to get very ugly. It all makes you wonder why any car company would embark on selling such a vehicle.

[stephen wilson]

I'm a believer in personal accountability. If you choose to buy a "dangerous" car, without stability controls, that's on you, not the manufacturer.

I don't undeerstand how people get large payouts for on-track accidents of any sort. When you enter any such event, you assume responsibility, even for other driver's boneheaded moves.

[particlewave]

The concept of personal responsibility is unfortunately lost on most because of greed, laziness, and selfishness.

Why work when one can simply sue?

[southernstar]

I am confident that there will be litigation and that, amongst other things, the plaintiffs will allege that the car was inherently unsafe for sale/use as a street vehicle; that the two segments of the tub were inadequately constructed; that the fire was due to negligent design/construction; that there was inadequate crush space, etc., etc. I suspect that they will also have little difficulty finding some 'experts' to support these propositions.

Even if the accident reconstruction reports clearly show that the vehicle was driven negligently and at a speed inappropriate for the road it was on, you will likely find a jury in the US that will feel sympathetic for two such nice young men and award millions. Afterall, a US jury awarded $2 million (as I recall) to a women who burned her thighs when she spilled coffee on them while opening the cup between her bare legs.

Why? There was no cautionary note that "cofffee is hot"! (That is why we now have these idiotic reminders on coffee cups). The real reason for the jury's decision, of course, is that MacDonalds has deep pockets and this poor, nice woman (who had great legs, I suspect) had to spend money she could not afford on only partially successful surgery on the disfigurement to those great legs. I am sure that some psychologist testified she is embarrssed to go out in shorts, or short dresses/skirts; that the most outstanding part of her figure was her legs and her sense of self-worth was inextricably bound up with the same. The poor girl was probably suicidal! What is worse, she will no longer be able to attract a 'leg man' - the type of man who dated her in the past. I mean, when Rod Stewart wrote the song 'Hot legs' he may have been thinking of her. Well, somebody has to pay and surely MacDonald's can afford it! Cha Ching!

Does anyone here actually believe that this will not end up in litigation? Does anyone honestly believe that Porsche will not ultimately pay out millions upon millions - likely to settle rather than try such a high profile case, whether or not they were negligent? Does anyone think they will be willing to lose in the court of public opinion, regardless of what may happen at trial?

Brad

[Perfectlap]

^ actually that McCoffee case was a little more complicated than that. THat particular McDonald's was nuking the coffee and handing it over at temps well beyond what would be considered safe for a mobile hot beverage. I recall the surgeon who had to perform skin grafts on the old lady saying he'd never seen burns that bad from a simple coffee spill.

I think there will indeed be litigation if they can find evidence that there was some manner of malfunction. But if there was no malfunction, and this was just a case of too much HP with too little electronics nanying (for a road car), there will still be a legal action.

Also, the pricey lawyers for Porsche will know that they have already been convicted on the charge that their's is the brand that killed (another) famous actor. What they spend fighting the case will not be worth simply writing a check to the families. It will simply re-inforce a notion amongst many that Porsches are dangerous and a $80-$100K Jaguar or Merc is more forgiving and life-continuing. From a business point of view getting out the laywers to fight to the death, for years, is not conducive to sales.

[southernstar]

Agreed perfectlap - precisely why I expect that there will be a lawsuit and that it will be settled. As far as the MacDonald's case is concerned, I still find it hard to believe that anyone would open a cup of coffee between their bare legs and not realize that it was hot. Coffee made with a french press is just a couple of minutes past boiling, as is percolated coffee. I don't care how much they nuked her coffee, I mean, do we really need warnings that "coffee is hot"! Keeping in mind that McDonald's cups are cardboard and not styrofoam, the outside of the cup alone is enough to cause burns if held for any period (which is why some people ask for double cups). What about tea? Don't they pour boiling water in the cup with a tea bag? Whether the plaintiff was an old (but either negligent or stupid) woman, or a young one with the same traits, I still think their verdict stands for the same proposition: juries who have sympathy for a plaintiff will tend to award them money due to that sympathy - and large amounts of money if the defendant is perceived as having large pockets.

[Perfectlap]

If memory serves the old lady was willing to settle for as little as $20K in medical expenses (she spent a week in the hospital undergoing skin grafts and had burns to 20% of body) and a court-appointed mediator pegged settlement at like $200K. McD's refused both offers to settle (they spent way more on lawyers anyway -- go figure) and marched into court. In the end the jury gave the old lady $3 million! Sometimes you have to know when the math does not make sense no matter what the lawyer dudes are saying. Which is exactly what will happen in the case of the car that killed another young handsome actor.

[Topless]

It happened in California, the lawyer state. Somebody sneezes and you can sue and win $3mil here. I'm sure every personal injury and wrongful death attorney in the state is descending on these two families like flying monkeys on Dorothy. Porsche has deep pockets and they will surely extract the necessary funds for their clients... less the customary 30% fee of course.

[coreseller]

Originally Posted by Topless

It happened in California, the lawyer state. Somebody sneezes and you can sue and win $3mil here. I'm sure every personal injury and wrongful death attorney in the state is descending on these two families like flying monkeys on Dorothy. Porsche has deep pockets and they will surely extract the necessary funds for their clients... less the customary 30% fee of course.

It is after all the home of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals lol. They've shown over the years the common sense proclivity of a duck.

Given the "Earnings Potential" of the deceased, my guess is this will undoubtedly rise to another level entirely. I pity those who will get ensnared.

[linklaw]

Originally Posted by trimer

What kind of litigation could these family proceed with? Suing for driving a car? Im not trying to be a smart as% and this is not an attack on your post but in all seriousness, what possibly could they sue for? A blown tire? sue for the fact that they were driving a 600 plus horsepower car and Porsche shouldnt build that fast of a car? THis will be interesting to see.

As far as the family of the driver is concerned, I would think that in order to be successful in any litigation they would have to prove that there was a mechanical malfunction with the car that caused the crash and driver's death. As for the passenger's family it is a completely different scenario. It is clear to me that if speed was a factor in the crash, the driver was the one operating the vehicle at the unsafe speed. Don't forget that "they" were not driving the car. Only one of them was the driver. Unless the passenger was reaching over and pushing the throttle or grabbing the steering wheel, I can't imagine how his family would not recover in a lawsuit against the driver. Driving a car at (presumably) double the speed limit is probably negligence per se. Failing to keep the vehicle under control and failing to stop it before the collision is negligence on the part of the driver. Since when does getting in a car with somebody give them a license to drive like a maniac and kill you? Is it any different than if the driver were intoxicated, crashed and killed his passenger?

[Topless]

A first look at the crash site from an engineer who does accident investigations offers a few clues to what happened:

I do talk to a white-haired man with small, even white teeth, who's been strolling around the site with a few inches of tape measure sticking out of one fist. None of the newspeople is paying any attention to him. He's an engineer who works in a building nearby. He came out here the first day and took pictures. The engineer's son is a "pro drifter," and he came out, too, and it was pretty clear to both of them what had happened. The whole story's written on the pavement, the engineer says. He asks me not to use his name, says it wouldn't be right for him to go on the record spouting off, that it might muddy the waters if there's ever an official investigation.

The engineer does accident investigations — deep-sea shipwrecks, air crashes. That's what this reminds him of, he says, an air crash. We walk up and down for almost 40 minutes and he shows me things about the site. Telltale signs. The boarded-up second-story window in the building behind the crash site, broken by a piece of the car — the starter, everybody's saying. This is how you know how fast they were going. For the starter to have broken a window 120 feet from where the car hit the pole, the engineer says, the car would have to have been traveling at 120 mph or more. Basic physics, the engineer says.

We walk down the hill, and he shows me the Carrera's tire marks on the pavement, tells me about the difference between a skid and a scuff. A skid is the kind of transfer of rubber that happens when a car is stopping; a scuff is what you get when a tire is locked and juddering sideways across the pavement. These are scuffs, the engineer says. From the scuffs, and the way the two tracks converge on the pavement, and a red-paint scrape-mark where the low front spoiler on the GT might have clipped the curb, it's pretty clear the car was in an "evasive slide" when it hit the pole. Like what you might do — and I say "might," as the engineer took pains to — were you a skilled driver trying to avoid hitting something while traveling at over 120 mph.

The engineer holds his cell phone out flat, turns it in the air, shows me how the mass of the car would have brought it around. He thinks the pole hit the driver's side first, then spun the car into the trees. Which means the notion that Walker died instantly — in the crash, not the fire — may be wishful thinking.

"Morbid ****************," the engineer says, when I ask him if he has noticed the collectors on the hillside. Not to mention that this is still technically a crime scene. The engineer says he saw the police taking a few measurements that day, but he hasn't seen anybody take a picture of the paint scrape on the curb yet. The engineer thinks that, as a car guy, Walker would want people out here, figuring out what had happened.

"He understood the physics of cars, and I think he would expect car enthusiasts to come out here and analyze it. And learn from it. So it doesn't happen again. It certainly has changed the way the drift kids are thinkin' right now. They're all scared ****************less. Young kids, they've got a drift club here in town. It's a wake-up call for them. They use this guy's lifestyle as a role model. So that's a big event for these car enthusiasts. Especially my son — he's pretty upset right now. You feel a kindred spirit, like you're connected to the guy. It's had a traumatic effect. I mean, look at this — were you here yesterday? There were like a thousand people here yesterday."


Dead Man's Curve: The Scene at Paul Walker's Crash Site and the Way We Mourn Now - Hollywood Prospectus Blog - Grantland

[Deserion]

The local fast 'n furious crowd was blocking traffic on I-295S tonight. Maybe 50 of them, flashers going, driving 30-40mph and revving engines. Figured it was in "honor/memoriam" of PW, and stupid me for calling them out on their bull**** of blocking all three lanes.

[BYprodriver]

Porsche Carrera GT Dangerous Vehicle Product Liability Lawsuit

[nieuwhzn]

"Porsche Carrera GT Dangerous Vehicle Product Liability Lawsuit"

Only in America, my friends, only in America!

Life is full of dangers. You climb a ladder, you break your neck. You walk a tightrope over the Grand Canyon, you splatter. You watch Fox News, you go brain dead. You buy a fast car, you crash and kill yourself.
I'm sick and tired of these shady lawyers trying to make a buck of the stupidity and misery of others.

[particlewave]

Originally Posted by nieuwhzn

"Porsche Carrera GT Dangerous Vehicle Product Liability Lawsuit"

Only in America, my friends, only in America!

Life is full of dangers. You climb a ladder, you break your neck. You walk a tightrope over the Grand Canyon, you splatter. You watch Fox News, you go brain dead. You buy a fast car, you crash and kill yourself.
I'm sick and tired of these shady lawyers trying to make a buck of the stupidity and misery of others.

My thoughts exactly! It's outright disgusting!
Roger Rodas killed Mr. Walker, not a darn machine. Ok, that's speculation as it could have been mechanical failure, but I think the point is obvious.

When someone is shot and killed, their family doesn't sue Smith & Wesson.
I'm a patriot, but the American people have become something that I want no part of. Social media and mass media are the worst..."guilty until we decide your not", Nancy Grace mentality

[Nine8Six]

Originally Posted by particlewave

My thoughts exactly! It's outright disgusting!
Roger Rodas killed Mr. Walker, not a darn machine. Ok, that's speculation as it could have been mechanical failure, but I think the point is obvious.

When someone is shot and killed, their family doesn't sue Smith & Wesson.
I'm a patriot, but the American people have become something that I want no part of. Social media and mass media are the worst..."guilty until we decide your not", Nancy Grace mentality

I reassure you that it has nothing to do with the USA mate - stay proud. Canada, China, The United Kingdoms, all have the same appetitive and means to fight for their rights. Heard it's tuff in other place of the world as well :/

I truly believe in the Justice For All system or similar.... what I can't bear are those rats roaming around (the dead in this case) trying to make money off other's miseries. That is the saddest part imho

[particlewave]

You are right. I was posting angry. I just found out that I got an 89.75% in my geography class and I'm not happy about that, lol
0.25% away from an "A". Grrrrrr....

That's going to hurt the GPA. Back on topic and I'm out of this one
I'll let the experts handle it.

[husker boxster]

I got a kick out of them twice mentioning that lawyers are experts at determining the saftety of vehicles. My a$$.