RIP Paul Walker - killed in a CGT's passenger seat

[stephen wilson]

Not severe? I don't understand how going THRU a light pole (sideways?), and hard into a tree is not severe. It does appear that the car "broke" in the middle, or just folded around the tree, but the tires/suspension stayed with their respective sections. Entirely believable that even a "pro" could lose it with a twitchy car like that. As mentioned elsewhere, it can bottom out on crowned roads, obviously causing problems at speed. The F1 reference is different, circuits generally don't have concentrated points of contact like a light pole.

[coreseller]

Originally Posted by Topless

Yes. A 997 GT2RS at Pomona Fairplex race track. 3000lbs @620hp It had rained the night before so there was a lot of standing water on the track This wealthy driver had just bought the car and had never been on a track before. We were very cautious in the morning and as the track dried out gradually added throttle. The car was just stupid fast.

I really don't want to own one of these because I am certain that one moment of reckless abandon and it will end badly.

Exactly how I felt. Unless you've ridden in or driven a car with that kind of power it is hard to understand how completely brutal and non-forgiving they could be.

I like you have absolutely no desire to own anything that powerful.

[Perfectlap]

actually, I said the injuries would be severe.

And I did not say this wasn't a severe crash.

I'm simply saying this isn't like on-track crash where the destruction is much worse. Yet short of the driver impacting the tree (or pole) directly like the entirely preventable fatality at LeMans this year, or the car flipping over and killing the driver like Michele Alboreto in the Audi, most drivers survive impacts at much higher speeds than what occurred here. Also, many F1 circuits do indeed have points of impact, Robert Kubica's crash at Montreal comes to mind. And Dario Franchitti's accident on the Indy road course this past year is another. There's always some sort of barrier that can and have indeed been impacted by out-of-control carbon fiber racing cars, yet the drivers (excluding oval catch fencing) nearly always survive. But as I said, if the driver or passenger directlty came into the path of the tree/pole it's another matter.

And I don't think that the possibility of losing control of the car is up for the debate as many far more experienced drivers have proven that this car is inherently dangerous. Personally I think the decision to make this car street legal was a poor one. Allowing anyone to buy a car without any qualification for road car use really puts innocent motorists at risk. Porsche imho should have made this a track only propostion like a Cup car which you can buy from them any day of the week.

[stephen wilson]

Sorry, I misinterpreted your commentary. Carry on !

[woodsman]

T- bone's are different. 100mph to zero in 3 inches. We are then back to the days before crumple zones. The G-loads are then just too great for the human body to bear. People die after a 30 mph T-bone EVERYDAY.

[Perfectlap]

Where has this 100 mph figure been coming from? I mean is a estimate by Police or is coming from actual data logging?

[woodsman]

I like other people, 'just know' what the truth is!!! I KNOW WHAT IS TRUE!!!!!!I AM HUMAN AND WHEN I KNOW- I KNOW! That 's why I don't NEED to WAIT for empirical facts to be reported- or any other type of FACT-BASED , provable, repeatable truth. And besides, I am too busy and TOO DAMN LAZY and TOO DAMN APATHETIC to SPEND MY TIME, INVESTIGATING THINGS. I choose to just 'decide without inquery' instead. I am like most people in this. Ah sorry, Perfectlap- I have been put ( forced by ALLTHATIS) to teach others about the scientific inquery and the pathetic pattern of not doing due- diligence in matters of importance. You are modelling that due diligence perfectly at this very moment! I have previously stated on this topic that 'I estimate they were going about 80mph and now feel it could be 100mph.

[Timco]

My opinion on speed is that at 0-50ish the car will be destroyed and will wrap around smaller objects like that tree. At 60+ I've seen telephone poles sheered off by small vehicles. At 100ish I would think that car would have either sheered off both the pole and tree and ended up many yards beyond the curb or broke in half even more cleanly.

At lower speeds the dead stop of the pole and tree would be more traumatic to passengers and the car....then add two explosions. Hell, the first 'smaller explosion' could have been impact or even a tire popping.

[coreseller]

Originally Posted by woodsman

I like other people, 'just know' what the truth is!!! I KNOW WHAT IS TRUE!!!!!!I AM HUMAN AND WHEN I KNOW- I KNOW! That 's why I don't NEED to WAIT for empirical facts to be reported- or any other type of FACT-BASED , provable, repeatable truth. And besides, I am too busy and TOO DAMN LAZY and TOO DAMN APATHETIC to SPEND MY TIME, INVESTIGATING THINGS. I choose to just 'decide without inquery' instead. I am like most people in this. Ah sorry, Perfectlap- I have been put ( forced by ALLTHATIS) to teach others about the scientific inquery and the pathetic pattern of not doing due- diligence in matters of importance. You are modelling that due diligence perfectly at this very moment! I have previously stated on this topic that 'I estimate they were going about 80mph and now feel it could be 100mph.

Dude..............

[TeamOxford]

Given the media attention that this tragic event has garnered, I tend to think that an intensive examination of the accident will be conducted, and eventually more concrete facts will surface. I also think it prudent to refrain from purely emotional and irrational hypotheses.

Mourning at this time is more appropriate, as in a short period of time this entire event will essentially be forgotten.

There will plenty of time for theories then.

Just sayin'................

TO

[woodsman]

Originally Posted by TeamOxford

Given the media attention that this tragic event has garnered, I tend to think that an intensive examination of the accident will be conducted, and eventually more concrete facts will surface. I also think it prudent to refrain from purely emotional and irrational hypotheses.

Mourning at this time is more appropriate, as in a short period of time this entire event will essentially be forgotten.
There will plenty of time for theories then.
Just sayin'................
TO

What is wrong with trying to figure it out ourselves? I enjoy trying to understand the 'scene' and others do to. I don't think anyone means any disrespect, nor does it indicate apathy.

[Frodo]

Originally Posted by TeamOxford

I thought the Carrera GT wasn't equipped with traction control.[/I]

TO

I wouldn't have known one way or the other. (I doubt my local Porsche dealership would have allowed my sorry butt to so much as settle comfortably into the driver's seat, ignition off! )

Just going on what Clarkson said in the vid at roughly the 5:46 mark. The aforementioned "button of death"? He referred to it as TC.

[RandallNeighbour]

Tragic for sure. What a senseless waste of two lives. The driver had kids.

Sorry OP, I did not think he was a very good actor, although perceived as "cool".

[RedTele58]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

They are swearing up and down with total certainty that this was nothing but 100% driver error. Before release of any of the facts for independent review.
I guess these are the times we live in.

On a somewhat similar topic, I spent my entire 23 year military career as a USAF aviator. I grew up as the son of a career aviation mechanic who's business was building racing and aerobatic engines. My younger brother died at age 20 in an aviation accident. I grew up around my Dad's clients and friends having died in aviation accidents. I've lost friends in military aviation accidents from the time I was a 2d Lt.

The common thought around almost every accident was "It couldn't have been his fault. There MUST have been something wrong with the airplane. He was simply too good a pilot to let something happen to him, etc, etc."

Throughout my 50+ years around civilian and military aviation I've read countless accident reports, and the common thread in almost all was Pilot Error. The pilot simply let something get away from him or put himself in a predicament/position that was not recoverable. Seldom was the accident the sole fault of the aircraft.

So while yes, it's too early to know the facts of the accident, I know on which side I'd place my money...

With respect,

Rick

[Tucker2]

Sitting next to a coworker tonight on the bus on the way home...he said he had heard of a new video showing the actual crash. Not the security cam vids shown to date....but something new that came out late Pacific Time today. Anyone seen it? (I have not and am not claiming it exists....just asking).

[Perfectlap]

Yes most fatalities are absolutely driver error. Especially as the machinery becomes more complicated. I'm not debating that. The point is that there is a process of review and evaluation that must be conducted. That is what we owe the dead. Blaming them for their own demise before the process has been concluded is really unfair. Any premature conclusions based on the statistical probability that it wasn't a case of equipment malfunction is nothing more than that, a guess based on past events. By all indications this has a long list of atypical circumstances.
For starters most fatalities by sports car drivers on the road do not include trained sports car drivers let alone competitive ones. Secondly most of these fatalities do not include ultra rare, ultra ill-handling cars that can easily become dangerous with something as simple as an improper alignment. Third, most of these sports car fatalities do not occurr in this type of a street location where even getting the car at a sustainable high rate of speed is even possible, simply not enough road. And fourth, most of those fatalities don't occurr with this type of carbon fiber sports car construction -- this car at impact is unlike virtually every other sports car crash.
If there was ever an incident that was unlike most typical sports car fatalities I can hardly think of better one than this.

When you think about it, this exact accident could have occurred at virtually any stadium autocross where speeds can easily exceed the 65mph speed limit, and there's always a light pole of some kind near enough to wrap the car around it. Yet when is the last time you heard of someone dying from an impact during an autocross incident?

Originally Posted by Tucker2

Sitting next to a coworker tonight on the bus on the way home...he said he had heard of a new video showing the actual crash. Not the security cam vids shown to date....but something new that came out late Pacific Time today. Anyone seen it? (I have not and am not claiming it exists....just asking).

I did see a video on TV where the car is shown veering toward the edge of the road but the crash itself is obstructed by something getting in the way of camera.
There must be something up with showing that video, after seeing it I was sure it would be plastered all over the news over and over. and it seems TMZ pulled the video they had of the impact.

[Timco]

Originally Posted by Tucker2

Sitting next to a coworker tonight on the bus on the way home...he said he had heard of a new video showing the actual crash. Not the security cam vids shown to date....but something new that came out late Pacific Time today. Anyone seen it? (I have not and am not claiming it exists....just asking).

Autopsy blames impact and fire for actor Paul Walker's death - CNN.com

Bottom corner under more video....

[Tucker2]

Originally Posted by Timco

Autopsy blames impact and fire for actor Paul Walker's death - CNN.com

Bottom corner under more video....

No....not that. I've seen that one. It's not a security camera view like the first couple videos I have personally seen. This is something hand-held supposedly. I am not trying to be a Troll...it's just that this co-worker is one of those encyclopedia types that tends to know about stuff a day before you hear about it and I was interested to see if anyone else had heard anything. The other comment about TMZ vid may be what he was talking about.

[Timco]

Originally Posted by Tucker2

No....not that. I've seen that one. It's not a security camera view like the first couple videos I have personally seen. This is something hand-held supposedly. I am not trying to be a Troll...it's just that this co-worker is one of those encyclopedia types that tends to know about stuff a day before you hear about it and I was interested to see if anyone else had heard anything. The other comment about TMZ vid may be what he was talking about.

The one shot by the occupants of the blue car with fart can exhaust?

[southernstar]

I agree with all who suggest that we should await some concrete evidence before jumping to conclusions. We should also understand that there is a very strong prospect of litigaton by the families of both of these men - and that as Porsche will have much deeper 'pockets', I suspect that there will be a strong motivation to find some way to blame the manufacturer. Remember the Audi 5000'sudden acceleration' fairy tail? It led to inflammatory coverage on 60 minutes and at least one successful lawsuit, even though the 'science' was a joke. Stand by folks.....

Brad