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Old 08-30-2005, 06:41 PM   #1
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Question Certified Porsche - What does it really mean?

what is the "downside" - if any - of buying a certified Boxster that has two years of manufacturers warrantee left in addition to the Certified additional two years/or approximatedly 86K left in mileage for the next 4 years? I don't quite get how an automobile manufacturer - Porsche - is able to do this. The car (an '03 base model) appears to be in excellent condition - body, paint, top, wheels, and even the tires are new Michelins original equipment, etc. Can anyone explain this to me?

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Old 08-30-2005, 07:09 PM   #2
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Downsides:
You will pay far more for the car than if you bought the same car with the remainder of the factory warranty on it and no factory-extended warranty from a reputable source like Richard (BruceLee). Richard, my bird dog check should be sent to 10055 Regal Row, Houston, Texas.......

If you plan to race the car on a track and they find out, the factory warranty remaining and any extended warranty on the car is dead.

The last downside is that if you put on a bunch of aftermarket intake/exhaust, chip it, or put on anything they can use against you in a court of law, they'll not repair the car. (ie, you lower it and your control arms go out prematurely and they may not replace them under warranty saying your non-approved coil-overs did the damage when this is not really the truth).

If you don't plan to race it or mod it a lot, I think you'll enjoy the upsides...

Upsides (potentially huge in my not-so-humble opinion):
The service guy will certainly tell the mechanic to hunt for any kind of repair he can make to your car when you bring it in for something simple like an annual oil change. Your service paperwork will be five feet long because Porsche is paying and the service advisor is making lots of commission off it if he discovers worn or broken parts on your car.

The other upside is that Porsche doesn't usually certify Porsches for this program that have known problems they haven't already fixed or are unwilling to willing to fix for you should you find them. Abused and neglected cars are supposedly auctioned off and not allowed to sit on a Porsche lot as a CPO car.

I've bought other CPO cars (a 95 Lexus LS400, for example) and I am bound and determined to buy my next Boxster as a used CPO car from a dealership with a nice long warranty on it, which I will pay to extend as many years or miles as is legally possible under the program. Then I'll finally be able to sleep good at night and not worry about big repair bills because I've already shelled out 10~20% more for the car than from buying it from an auction reseller.

I say if you can afford one, you won't be dissappointed when and if you need service down the road because it's covered and not eating you out of your vacation cash.
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Last edited by RandallNeighbour; 08-30-2005 at 07:15 PM.
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Old 08-31-2005, 05:41 AM   #3
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As usual, Randall has done a very nice job answering this question.

Thanks Randall!

One thing to mention is that what constitutes a CPO car and CPO warranty can vary greatly from one manufacturer to another. I too have had CPO car from Lexus and found their warranty to be top drawer.

I have NOT had to use a CPO warranty from Porsche so I have no direct experience.

Irrespective of which manufacturer/dealer you purchase the car from, it is criticial to receive a copy of the warranty contract. If the dealer says there is no such thing, then he is lying or just plain wrong and you should tell him so.

I did have to chat with Lexus about this and they did find the paper work for me after our chat.

Elsewhere on the board, one of our members is fighting with Porsche as we speak in regards to replacing his top under warranty. This member does NOT have a warranty contract and is without a reference when Porshce says, "no go!"

You should NOT assume that the extended warranty is identical to the new car warranty. Often they are NOT and yet, the sales pitch is otherwise. Many states are now starting to crack down on this practice, writing new regulations on the use of the term CPO and how it can be used.

As in all things, Caveat Emptor!

Best of luck.
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Old 08-31-2005, 06:17 AM   #4
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Randall mentioned that the warranty will be invalidated if you race or modify the car. Is this true for track days too? What about reversible mods like a BK rollbar?
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Old 08-31-2005, 06:32 AM   #5
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I think that the track day is "racing" as far as I would define it. However, that is why I mentioned that you need to obtain a contract, because, if it is in there, you are stuck.

Good to know about it before you buy rather than later.

Also keep in mind that the computer in your Box can tell Porsche if you have run the car a certain way, ie over rev etc. If the contract allows them to void coverate for these issues, well then they can!
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Old 08-31-2005, 07:27 AM   #6
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Hey BruceLee, is the CPO warranty work done on a Porsche with more operator scrutiny than on my Lexus?
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Old 08-31-2005, 08:11 AM   #7
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Coverage for the CPO program...

Does anyone on the board have a copy of what the "limited certified warranty" covers (or doesn't cover)? My 03 is certified, but I never recieved any information (even after requesting it) regarding what will change when the regular warranty ends and the certified kicks in.

Also, I read a couple of months back that Porsche had hired a team to go around to their dealerships to do random checks of their CPO vehicles. Apparently this is to ensure all cars meet the basic CPO standards and dealers don't cheat to earn a few extra bucks.



From a dealer's website:

"Once enrolled, your Porsche Approved Certified Pre-Owned vehicle comes with the Porsche Approved Limited Warranty coverage of up to 6 years/100,000 miles, plus Porsche Roadside Assistance, an exclusive support service that offers added security when travelling."
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Old 08-31-2005, 10:58 AM   #8
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Randall,

Not sure what you mean? Can you clarify your question, please?



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Hey BruceLee, is the CPO warranty work done on a Porsche with more operator scrutiny than on my Lexus?
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Old 08-31-2005, 11:02 AM   #9
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I asked for one recently and was told, "Hey, we have never seen that, but your car is marked in our computer as "extended warranty." This leads me to believe that the coverage is the same that you can buy when you buy your new Porsche, but that is a hunch.

If it were me, I would never buy a CPO car unless they had a written coverage statement (contract) to hand me. Or, if in writing, they affirm that the new car warranty is simply extended.

However, that is not the way most CPO car warranties are sold and that is why CA is taking steps to regulate this a bit more.

Normally, I am agin regulation but in this case, I would support it.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Onad
Does anyone on the board have a copy of what the "limited certified warranty" covers (or doesn't cover)? My 03 is certified, but I never recieved any information (even after requesting it) regarding what will change when the regular warranty ends and the certified kicks in.

Also, I read a couple of months back that Porsche had hired a team to go around to their dealerships to do random checks of their CPO vehicles. Apparently this is to ensure all cars meet the basic CPO standards and dealers don't cheat to earn a few extra bucks.



From a dealer's website:

"Once enrolled, your Porsche Approved Certified Pre-Owned vehicle comes with the Porsche Approved Limited Warranty coverage of up to 6 years/100,000 miles, plus Porsche Roadside Assistance, an exclusive support service that offers added security when travelling."
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Old 08-31-2005, 11:37 AM   #10
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BruceLee: I'll elaborate to see if it clears up any confusion...

My lexus had a 100k extended warranty as a CPO car purchased off the Lexus lot. It seemed as if it were exactly the same as the factory warranty... I complained, they fixed it with a big smile on their face. When I'd bring it in for an overpriced oil change, they'd clean the car inside and out (even waxed it once for free!) and I'd always get a five foot long no-charge bill of the stuff they did to it while in their possession for that single day. They'd do all sorts of stuff under the extended warranty, such as update computer chips, replace struts, put in a new battery once, worked on my A/C, replaced the retractable antenna (even though I damaged that myself by listening to the radio in a car wash) etc.

My question was to ask if you knew if local dealerships milked the warranty to do all sorts of things to cars to make money, or is that just the Lexus dealers? My friends and brother all have Lexus autos and said it's the same at their dealerships.

Does a CPO Porsche owner get all kinds of stuff replaced like this as well, or are they more stringent and wait for the owner to complain and bring it in specifically for the issue at hand?
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Old 08-31-2005, 11:59 AM   #11
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In my experience, Lexus and Porsche approach warranty work in very different ways. Lexus bends WAY over backwards to handle customer issues of any kind.

Porsche is a bit more Germanic about warranty work in general and will nick you for things that you would think would be covered under warranty.

Gereralizations I know but that is my experience to date.

BTW-doesn't make Porsche bad, they are just not Lexus (who is?) in this regard.

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Old 09-08-2005, 08:47 PM   #12
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My car too has a CPO extended warantee for and additional 2 years or up to 100K. It comes up in Porsches network whenever they key in the VIN for the car. All the dealer can tell me is that it will not cover eveything the factory warantee covers once the factory 4 year 50K warantee expires. He cannot tell me exacltly what is covered and what is not. It seams to be on a case by case and dealership by dealership and how hard are you willing to scream basis. The fact the car has this is one of the main reasons I bought this particular car as I figure it must cover any drive train problems. Since purchase I have discovered it really does not take much to run up a really big repair bill on a Boxster. Non drivetrain issues can costa ya plente. Does anyone have data on what this "CPO" warantee is really supposed to cover?
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Old 09-09-2005, 06:11 AM   #13
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If it were me and Porsche refused to produce a written list of coverage, I would go straight to the insurance dept in that state.

There is no excuse for this kind of fraud.

BTW-for all of you who have or do buy a CPO car, I would make this a deal breaker. You are paying about $4K for that warranty and it should bloody well be in writing.

If you have already done this dead, at least keep the window sticker and any related advertising about the warranty. You may need it in court.

Man, this topic pisses me off!

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Old 09-09-2005, 12:08 PM   #14
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I will pose as a CPO buyer this weekend at my local dealership, drive the piss out of a CPO 986 S (I've never driven one and it's a great excuse), and ask them to give me the CPO warranty details in writing or I won't buy the car.

Oooooh, I just love self-commissioning myself for a secret mission! I'll report back in full as to what happens and what I receive.
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Old 09-09-2005, 12:41 PM   #15
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Man, I would LOVE to have a video of this whole process. Might be instructive for our friends in Stuttgart?

Good stuff!



Quote:
Originally Posted by RandallNeighbour
I will pose as a CPO buyer this weekend at my local dealership, drive the piss out of a CPO 986 S (I've never driven one and it's a great excuse), and ask them to give me the CPO warranty details in writing or I won't buy the car.

Oooooh, I just love self-commissioning myself for a secret mission! I'll report back in full as to what happens and what I receive.
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Old 09-09-2005, 01:00 PM   #16
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I calculated the premium my local P-dealer wanted was really closer to $8-10K for a certifited car with more mileage and frewer options. I bought a car with three months of factory warranty from a Chevy dealer.

...THEN - I took it to my P-dealer and has them do the 'certified' inspection for, like $175. Passed.

...THEN - I went and bought an external warranty. (noted above)

Given the cars I saw at the P-dealer were really nothing special in condtion or options, I'd sooner - if I felt insecure in my lack of knowledge/resources - have someone like our host find me a car in the colors with options I wanted.

Jim
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Old 09-09-2005, 04:33 PM   #17
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From the Porsche Website: (See attached file for their brochure)

From what I understand the dealer cost for the extended warranty is ~$1500 on a Boxster. Compare that to what you get with an outside warranty company but remember, the Porsche warranty is $0 deductable and comes with roadside assistance.

Quote:
What distinguishes a vehicle from the Porsche Approved Pre-owned Car Program from a conventional pre-owned vehicle?

* We check each vehicle using a 100-item checklist
* Repairs are carried out in line with the strict Porsche quality criteria
* You are given a 1-year guarantee which is valid around the world
* You benefit from the Porsche Assistance mobility guarantee

What can you expect?
Driving pleasure, quality, safety and stability of value. In short: A Porsche which really cannot be described as a pre-owned vehicle. Rather, as a thoroughbred sports car the charm of which was once tasted by another driver.
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Old 09-09-2005, 05:52 PM   #18
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I bought my 2002 S from a private party and I paid right at Kelly blue book for it for a private party sale, so I don't think I paid too much for it. Like I was saying one of the main reasons I selected this car was because of the CPO extended warrantee. The seller told me he paid quite a premium for it when he bought the car from a Porsche dealership here in LA. I found this valuable to protect me from catastrophic failures and I feel it will do that. The good news is it is fully transferable. There is no paperwork involved with transference, as like stated before, this CPO warrantee is attached to the VIN and comes up in the dealers computer as soon as they check in the car. That's kinda cool cause "Bonzo" the seller, as we will affectionately call him from now on, could produce absolutely no paperwork substantiating his claim of said extended warrantee. I had to call up the dealership to verify his claim and within minutes, the service rep gave me the good news. This verification would have come up on any Porsche dealers computer. I am actually still under the factory warrantee for one more year, but judging from my experience with warrantee issues covered by factory, I am expecting some fiarly significant resistance when it comes to CPO warrantee issues. Nowhere near has my experience with Porsche been as satisfying as Randallís rendition of how Lexus treated him. The worst part I am also re-stating is I just can't seem to get a straight answer on what will be covered and what will not be covered once my factory warrantee runs out. One thing for sure is that I will put up a hell of a fight if they try to reneg on something that really should be covered. Randall - Ill look forward to your post RE your covert Op.
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Old 09-09-2005, 06:11 PM   #19
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Several comments on the above posts.

The dealer pays Porsche $1500 for the actual insurance part of the warranty.

The dealer also has to incur the cost of inspection and for certain costs associated with bringing the car up to "spec" per Porsche requirements.

Now, after paying those costs, the dealer will charge you whatever they can for this warranty. As you know, the dealer is usually trying to charge above KBB retail for the car.

Now, my major beef is back to the issue of,

WHAT IS MY EXTENDED WARRANTY GOING TO COVER?

For me, that would have to be in writing or I would NEVER buy the car.

I will be very interested in Randalls experience.
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Old 09-10-2005, 11:47 AM   #20
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I have an appointment with a local dealer for next Wednesday to have my oxidizing windscreen trim replaced under factory warrantee. I will ask them to provide me with a copy of the CPO warrantee details as well. I will post the results.

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