Porsche Survival

[cbbepop]

ban chandarpool he's just thread spamming and advertising

[stephen wilson]

I guess I can see your point, I had a '94 Integra that was actually very fun. Good suspension, but small tires and soft springs, so you really felt the car respond to your inputs. I just don't see why Porsche would ever build their version of this, or a Miata. The want to be the pinnacle of performance, not mediocre and affordable. The Elise wouldn't even fit your needs, it may be light, with smaller tires, but it still has 1G cornering capability. You just can't turn back time and produce a "new" vintage car. can you even buy a car now with wind-up windows?

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by stephen wilson

I guess I can see your point, I had a '94 Integra that was actually very fun. Good suspension, but small tires and soft springs, so you really felt the car respond to your inputs. I just don't see why Porsche would ever build their version of this, or a Miata. The want to be the pinnacle of performance, not mediocre and affordable. The Elise wouldn't even fit your needs, it may be light, with smaller tires, but it still has 1G cornering capability. You just can't turn back time and produce a "new" vintage car. can you even buy a car now with wind-up windows?

Yes, the Elise can be ordered with wind-up windows, still sold in Europe. They're beautiful little aluminum pieces.

http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-jkl/Lotus-Elise-72-Interior.jpg

Like was mentioned above, the BRZ/FR-S come with lower adhesion tires.

The miata has a more sophisticated suspension system than the 911 and Boxster. There's nothing mediocre about the Miata besides it's storage space.

[NoGaBiker]

Originally Posted by blue2000s

There's nothing mediocre about the Miata. Besides it's storage space.

As an 11-year owner of Miatas (94-'04)and lover of same, I have to disagree. While the Miata can be great fun and was a pretty good handler when it came out in '89, the world moved forward and Mazda stayed still in both power and handling for 15 years, then made a small jump forward in each 7 years ago. As a result, recent comparos like the annual C&D Lightning Lap reveal the Miata's lap times to be slower than many of the front-drive economy sedans that have been tested. Yes, the car is still fun, like an MG-TD can be fun, but in any objective sense it has slipped to merely mediocre.

EDIT: I just saw your edited statement about suspension sophistication. Yes, theoretically the double-wishbone design of all generations of Miata has characteristics that make it better than strut-type suspensions. But execution is even more important than theory, and in this regard, at least U.S.-spec Miatas have too many compromised features to qualify as well-executed. (Of course, modified suspensions serve to reveal what a good platform the Miata offers, but any car can be modified, including Porsches. I'm talking what you get at the dealer.)

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by NoGaBiker

As an 11-year owner of Miatas (94-'04)and lover of same, I have to disagree. While the Miata can be great fun and was a pretty good handler when it came out in '89, the world moved forward and Mazda stayed still in both power and handling for 15 years, then made a small jump forward in each 7 years ago. As a result, recent comparos like the annual C&D Lightning Lap reveal the Miata's lap times to be slower than many of the front-drive economy sedans that have been tested. Yes, the car is still fun, like an MG-TD can be fun, but in any objective sense it has slipped to merely mediocre.

EDIT: I just saw your edited statement about suspension sophistication. Yes, theoretically the double-wishbone design of all generations of Miata has characteristics that make it better than strut-type suspensions. But execution is even more important than theory, and in this regard, at least U.S.-spec Miatas have too many compromised features to qualify as well-executed. (Of course, modified suspensions serve to reveal what a good platform the Miata offers, but any car can be modified, including Porsches. I'm talking what you get at the dealer.)

OK, the Miata's power is mediocre if you think you need to be down the 1/4 mile in less than 14 seconds for a car to be fun. The whole point is that lap times don't matter in the real world.

As far as suspension execution, the Miata may be a little soft stock, but a car that's got some very elemental suspension modifications can be hard to beat for fun to drive.

[NoGaBiker]

Originally Posted by blue2000s

OK, the Miata's power is mediocre if you think you need to be down the 1/4 mile in less than 14 seconds for a car to be fun.

Wow, is that REALLY what you got out of my comments?

But since you bring it up, 1/4 mile times are yet another proof of the Miata's mediocrity. It has mediocre lap times on any track, mediocre acceleration times over any distance, and mediocre fuel mileage given its tiny size, weight, and performance. On the other hand, it can be enormously fun, especially with suspension upgrades (and even more so with a solid turbo setup, but I digress.) Any way you slice it, that fun is being had in a mediocre vehicle.

[stephen wilson]

I primarily meant mediocre in the sense of ultimate cornering grip, which I believe is accurate, and what you are looking for.

[fivepointnine]

Originally Posted by blue2000s

OK, the Miata's power is mediocre if you think you need to be down the 1/4 mile in less than 14 seconds for a car to be fun. The whole point is that lap times don't matter in the real world.

As far as suspension execution, the Miata may be a little soft stock, but a car that's got some very elemental suspension modifications can be hard to beat for fun to drive.

yes sorta important to me but not totally, that is why I bought a S instead of a standard 2.7 (sub 14 second 1/4 mile) but not totally important or I would have just bought a vette or GTO......

my next car will be an Elise...bring on the 1G cornering!

plus you see even less of them than Boxsters!

[Paul]

Lotus: Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious