Porsche Survival - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

fullthrottle52 · 02-19-2012, 04:50 PM

Just thought I would start a conversation to get some thoughts about the viability of Porsche continuing as a car company and especially if the Boxster can survive as a continuing model. I know sales are up in 2011 vs 2012 for world wide sales of all products but here are some facts. According to the new Panaroma magazine, (which some of you may get) Porsche sales for December 2011 took a nose dive with Boxster sales being off 72%!! They only sold 38 cars nation wide for the month. Cayman sales were off 40% with 67 sold. If sales don't rebound soon for these models can they continue to make these models or at very least can dealers continue to inventory and import the boxster. Not to even start a comparison, because I love my boxster, but will the new Subaru BRZ and Scion FR-S going to be Boxster killers. I know they will compete more with the Mazda MX-5 but with a price of around $25,000 and a 200 hp boxer engine they will sell like hotcakes. Who is the NEW Boxster customer? At $75,000 to $90,000 for a 2 seat sports car it most certainly is not me! If I am going to pay that much for a sports car it would be a 911 that is 2 years old. For most of us here I don't think this discussion in a big deal because most seem to own Boxters that are more that 5 years old, but I would hate to see our beloved model go by the wayside. I only know if my business sales were down that much, even for one month, there would be a lot of meetings taking place and a lot of heads rolling.

Just a concerned owner.

ekam · 02-19-2012, 05:08 PM

Subaru BRZ and Scion FR-S are not convertibles.

fivepointnine · 02-19-2012, 05:08 PM

disagree about the subaru/scion competing with the Boxster.....those cars are SLOW, the new Boxster is definitely not slow in any sense of the word, plus the build quality of a Porsche is on a whole different level.

that being said when I get back into the country early next year I am considering trading my '02 S in on a new, low optioned base Boxster or a CPO 987

WhipE350 · 02-19-2012, 05:37 PM

I think they'll do OK. They can survive selling 125 in a normal month of Dec in the US I think they'll make it on 38. This car isn't their big money maker anyway. From what dealers were telling me they couldn't get enough of them in, and when they got an 'S' it sold. A lot of people won't wait for a car to be built and if what they want isn't in the showroom they don't buy. The other thing is I'm guessing a good percentage of folks considering a Boxster as their next purchase are now aware the new 981 is coming this early summer. I'm also guessing (or IMO) most folks who buy Boxsters wouldn't be looking at Scion, at least not for the same reason. I would take both a 987 and a Scion FR-S in my garage, but I would never compare them.

blue2000s · 02-19-2012, 05:15 PM

I wouldn't mind if the Boxster was discontinued at all. It saves me from watching them continually ruin it. In fact, Porsche can go out of business completely now. Their cars are too heavy and big to be sports cars and the trucks are, well, trucks, so the old Porsche is long gone anyway.

fullthrottle52 · 02-19-2012, 05:32 PM

I certainly did not insinuate that the Subaru BRZ is on the same level with a Boxster. My point is that if you are between 20 and 40 years old and raising a family you probably are not in the market for a new Boxster unless your rich and want a third car garage queen. Does Porsche need to have a $40,000 to $50,000 sports car to compete in the market place. Maybe a 4 cylinder? The younger crowd will go for the BRZ because of cost not because of build quality. They don't care as much about the name PORSCHE. Give Subaru a year and the BRZ will be made as a rag top.

WhipE350 · 02-19-2012, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullthrottle52

...Does Porsche need to have a $40,000 to $50,000 sports car to compete in the market place...

I'm not sure how much it is about competing...but you ask a good question. I'm thinking it is more about brand loyalty and brand name recognition. I started with a 'C' class Benz, loved the brand and moved up to an 'E' class (both were new). I'm thinking I'll own several more Porsches in my life, and maybe a new one someday.

jbs986 · 02-19-2012, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue2000s

I wouldn't mind if the Boxster was discontinued at all. It saves me from watching them continually ruin it. In fact, Porsche can go out of business completely now. Their cars are too heavy and big to be sports cars and the trucks are, well, trucks, so the old Porsche is long gone anyway.

+1 and the prices are going up and up.

thstone · 02-19-2012, 08:28 PM

First, recent Boxster sales are down because most potiential buyers (like all of us current Boxster owners) already know that the new 981 model is on the way later this year. This is the reason why car mfg's hate spy photos - sales tank as soon as pic's of the new model hit the internet. Also, we're in the middle of the biggest economic recession since the depression. Boxster sales will recover just fine once the new model is out and the economy starts to recover. In the meantime, Porsche will be quite happy selling $100K 991's and Panamera's.

As for the BRZ/FR-S, I don't think that they will sell like hotcakes. First, the 2 seat coupe is a very limited market which is why Toyota and Subaru had to share the development costs to justify building the car in the first place. And second, I can't see the younger generation abandoning their love of the WRX STi and Mitsu EVO any time soon.

fatmike · 02-20-2012, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullthrottle52

Just thought I would start a conversation to get some thoughts about the viability of Porsche continuing as a car company and especially if the Boxster can survive as a continuing model.

The Boxster is irrelevant. It's all about the Cayenne, and probably soon the little SUV (Cajun - whatever they will call it) will be a best seller.

jacabean · 02-20-2012, 05:24 AM

they will sell a lot of the new boxsters that i will guarantee .

ryanwise · 02-20-2012, 05:40 AM

It continues to kill me that if you want a new CaymanS..................nobody has any for sale. 3 dealerships here in the greater Tampa/St. Pete area and theres one to look at. Go on AutoTrader and see what the used car inventory looks like country wide for 2009+ Cars. There just aren't any to buy . Tons of 911's. If Porsche wants to sell cars.....they need to build a few more.
Agreed also.......why would you buy a 2012 BoxsterS when the new redesigned 2013 will be available in a few months? Boxster and Caymans are not going anywhere.

Ghostrider 310 · 02-20-2012, 06:48 AM

I disagree Ryan, Caymans and Boxsters are available but many are seriously over priced because of Porsche's gap in availability, I'll bet they have a lot of pissed off dealers, not that they care a bit. What I believe will be sitting a long while are the base units in each car. As for why buy old versus new model, well speaking for myself I don't like the new look, especially the gaps by the top. Furthermore, all the options and the prices will be higher, I'm truly happy to have grabbed a spyder before the new year.

PS You like Caymans? Check out Hennessey in Atlanta, I'm pretty sure it was him, the has three Cayman R's on the lot but you'll have to dig deep if you want one.

jcb986 · 02-20-2012, 11:50 AM

I agree with blue2000s, Porsche has turn the cars into luxury over sized 2 seater's. They need to get back to basics and produce a fun sorts car. Then again they are putting all the money into taking over VW.

landrovered · 02-20-2012, 02:44 PM

Porsche is evolving and I would not read too much into the slow sales for December because they knew that people would wait to buy the new 991 or at least see it before making a decision.

As for the SUVs and the Panamera, I would be happy to have any of them, I am considering the new Macan instead of my Range Rover. This does not lessen my desire for a GT3 in any way at all. Actually I would be happy to have an all Porsche fleet some day.

Deserion · 02-20-2012, 02:47 PM

The new 991 is no heavier than the outgoing 993 was in 1998. So I'm not exactly seeing where the "getting heavier" part is coming into play. Sure, the car is bigger and more powerful, but weighs about the same as the last of the aircooleds did. That's pretty amazing.

It makes very, very good sense for Porsche to offer the Cayenne and Panamera. By having higher volume vehicles, it allows them to have profits to still continue their business of producing sportscars. To me, if Porsche kept with the 911 and Boxster only, they might not be doing very well at all, if they would still exist.

wvboxst3r · 02-20-2012, 03:34 PM

for the low numbers in Dec. I just spoke to a Porsche dealer today and he said they quit ordering them due to the change.

They already have a waiting list on the new body style. He feels that the new Boxster will be on a six month wait or more once they arrive.

Also a side note he just received word that Lotus is in the early stages of five new modelsfor 2014. A lowerend starter and 4higher end to compete with 911 and fer,lambis, etc..

WhipE350 · 02-20-2012, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wvboxst3r

...He feels that the new Boxster will be on a six month wait or more once they arrive.

I'll believe this when is see it. I have a friend that ordered his 991 in early Jan, it was built on Feb 12th and is waiting to get on a boat for a pre-March 15th delivery. Sounds like dealer talk to me

. Ten days ago when Paramount had the unveiling of the 991 I asked the owner about the 981, he said he didn't have much info on it, I asked if i can get on the list to order one (I was just bull ****************ting) but he said I don't know when I can start ordering so I don't have a list yet.

The 991 was being driving in Europe long before it could be ordered here. I'm wondering if Boxster will be the same. If not, in that case I could see orders to take delivery could be long.

blue2000s · 02-20-2012, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deserion

The new 991 is no heavier than the outgoing 993 was in 1998. So I'm not exactly seeing where the "getting heavier" part is coming into play. Sure, the car is bigger and more powerful, but weighs about the same as the last of the aircooleds did. That's pretty amazing.

It makes very, very good sense for Porsche to offer the Cayenne and Panamera. By having higher volume vehicles, it allows them to have profits to still continue their business of producing sportscars. To me, if Porsche kept with the 911 and Boxster only, they might not be doing very well at all, if they would still exist.

3200 pounds is a heavy car, In 1995 or in 1012.

The 991 is about 300 pounds heavier than the 996, by the way.

papasmurf · 02-21-2012, 07:49 AM

Cars have not been lighter in a long time (since the 80's). All the early 90's sports cars (300zx, supra, 3000gt/stealth, vette, viper) were 3000+ lbs and many of them were much closer to 3500. The nsx and a few ferrari's were some of the few that were around the 3000 lb mark. I am a huge advocate for cars getting lighter (~2800) as I think it would do wonders for fuel economy and their would be no need for cars to have 400+ hp to have the performance they have today but it is not going to happen until people are content to do without navigation, backup cameras, A/C in the seats and glovebox, etc that they have come to expect of cars at this price point. When you can get many of those items on a kia or hyundai, it makes no sense not to have them on a car that costs 4-5 times as much. I am not fond of the trend of the 911 and boxster getting larger with each generation but will live with it as long as the weight stays the same. Porsche still builds some of the lightest cars on the road. Just check out the weight of a lamborghini murcielago or ferrari 599....they are anything but light weight and have a lot more exotic materials in them than any porsche currently in production. Porsche is doing what it has to do to sell cars....no one will buy a stripped down 911 or boxster in volume numbers...at least not at the prices they are selling at now. If you lower the price and the sales go up, then you anger those that think you are cheapening the brand. No matter what they do, there are going to be those that are upset. They are simply catering to the demand and marketplace. The lotus elise is a great lightweight car stripped down to the basics (like you suggest porsche should move towards again) but they are not exactly flying off the showroom floor and on every street corner are they?