Wanted to Introduce myself

[jerhofer]

I used to autocross a '84 944, ran an '83 944 track car for five years. owned a 1990 Miata, owned a S2000 and currently have a Boxster S. I also used to run an E-Production 356 and a '82 narrow body 911SC with a '89 breathed on Turbo motor in drivers education events.

While I haven't tracked or autocrossed the Boxster or the S2000, I have driven them both hard enough to get an idea of how they would perform.

You will find it pretty tough to beat the neutrality of the 944. You can get away with errors in a 944 that will bite you in a Boxster. I set up my 944 to have a bit of oversteer but the rear never snapped around like a Boxster will. It's a natural trait of a mid or rear engine car. The neutral handling of the 944 will allow the average driver to run it closer to the edge lap after lap without going over that edge. Once you have experience with rear or mid-engined cars, you can also run them on the ragged edge as well, but it sure takes a lot more concentration, skill, and balls to keep them on that edge. That's why driving a 911 or Boxster well is so rewarding.

The S2000 and the Miata have one thing in common and that is the Japanese feel. Not quite the same solid feel of the Porsches. At the same time, the two best transmissions of the many cars I have owned belong to the Miata and the S2000 with the favorite being the S2000. My 2001 S2000 was a ball to drive because of the short, smooth shifting transmission coupled with the 9000 rpm redline. While it is true that the car comes alive at 6000 rpm, it is not a total slug down low. The Boxster S is more rewarding down low and I love the combination of the induction and exhaust noise. However, I would guess that on an autocross or track, they would be pretty fairly matched.

Both cars are great fun to drive with the Boxster being more practical because of the two trunks. Either one would be an ideal Florida car.

[Perfectlap]

hey nice wheels jerhofer, really makes it look like the 93 concept car.
are those 10" in the rear?

[wombat7]

I definately do love the neutrality of my 944. I have yet to get the back end to come out from behind me while on the autocross course... and yes I have been pushing hard, finishing about 1.5-2 seconds behind the winning 1.8 Miatas. I absolutely love the way the car handles. If my car had a little more potential, I would probably keep it and mod it, but there is very little potential in an early model NA 944 and that's the cruel truth.

I have yet to drive an S2K, but I definately agree with the cheap feel of a miata. That is something that I hate. I had a Nissan 300ZX turbo and that was one of the reasons I sold the car. Everything in it just felt cheap. I hate that!! If I am going to spend the money on a car, I don't want everything in it to look like it is made out of cheap black plastic.

jerhofer brought something up that I didn't really think about. How much of a difference is there in handling btw a mid engine car and a front engine car. I have never driven anything but front engine, but I'm a very quick learner and would probably adjust very quickly to the difference, but I would kinda like to know some opinions on the subject.

[Perfectlap]

I think MR configurations are vastly affected by the power and torque.

an uderpowered car like the MR2 is very good in autocross and in one of my clubs runs within .1's (consitently) of a front wheel drive civic. Its really uncany, they are both excellent drivers use similar tires and week after week are seperated by less than .3's. Some times its come down to .01's difference.
They are both left foot brakers and water down their tires between runs.

I gues it comes down to driving style/preference.

[wombat7]

That's interesting about the mid rear setup... I've always heard that mid rear cars were very prone to snap oversteer... is that true with Boxsters? I just got done riding with my friend in his S2K and the oversteer in it was crazy. I mean he is a very good driver, and definately drives at the edge 85 - 90 % of the time so he probably induces more than what I would usually get on the street. I dunno which car I like better... I haven't driven a Boxster yet, but we'll see what happens when I get to actually drive one. The S2K has an amazing sports car feel... very stiff, very responsive, but i dunno about having to drive it at such high RPMs....

[Automon]

I have been in an S 2000 and it is a small car in fact my knees were rubbing against the dash and i had the seat all the way back. I am 6 foot by the way

[scycle2020]

the s2000 is a fun little sport car, but it is very small inside and has a minimalist interior...i drove one several times back to back with the 986s, ....the s2k is more raw, louder rougher ride...very fast steering and quick shifting which is very fun...but if you are not in the mood to shift like a mad man and flog the engine well over 6000rpm , the car can get bogged down.....the boxster s has much more torque and a much nicer engine sound...its steering and shifting arent as quick, but they are still very good, esp the steering feel...the seats and interior are much better as are the exterior touches.....so more me, a used 986s is the better car vs the s2000

[jerhofer]

Originally Posted by wombat7

That's interesting about the mid rear setup... I've always heard that mid rear cars were very prone to snap oversteer... is that true with Boxsters? I just got done riding with my friend in his S2K and the oversteer in it was crazy. I mean he is a very good driver, and definately drives at the edge 85 - 90 % of the time so he probably induces more than what I would usually get on the street. I dunno which car I like better... I haven't driven a Boxster yet, but we'll see what happens when I get to actually drive one. The S2K has an amazing sports car feel... very stiff, very responsive, but i dunno about having to drive it at such high RPMs....

My S2K tended to oversteer as well, but, it would not snap around as quickly as my Boxster. That is probably to be expected as it would be more common for a mid or rear engine car to have oversteering issues. I also agree about the ride quality of the S2K. The Boxster is much better and, when cruising for long distances on interstates with the top up, the Boxster is much quieter.

That being said, approaching that snap oversteer point is at a pretty high threshold. The good thing about some oversteer for autocrossing and track events is that turn-in is better and it is easier to rotate the car. As you acquire more seat time to gather confidence in either a Boxster or a 911, it becomes easier to use these characteristics to your advantage. Another advantage of mid or rear engine designs is better braking, as you have more weight over the rear wheels to make them work harder.

As for one of the remarks about getting a E36 M3, they are great cars as well. I have had both a E36 and a E46 M3. While the E46 is more refined and has more horsepower, the E36 was also great fun. Either one would be more like driving your 944 as the weight distribution in near 50-50 like the 944.

Another option would be a 968, although I am not wild about this car in the convertible configuration. If you are thinking of really concentrating on autocrossing, the rigidity of a coupe would be advantageous.

If you have the opportunity before you move to Florida, you should try a track event. You may not go back to autocrossing. You have a wonderful track less than an hour away in Putnam Park. It is very challenging yet has a long enough straightaway to gather up some serious speed. I ran my 83' 944 there many times and it was perfectly suited for this track. What you lose on the straights, you can make up in the corners against a lot of cars.

[wombat7]

I'm actually seriously concidering doing a DE event at Putnam Park before I move, but we'll see what happens. I would like to become a better autocrosser before I take a car to the track. I've heard that being good at autocross will help you adjust well to the road course. I don't know how comfortable I would feel out there right now.

About the E36, I was actually thinking about them too. The only thing is that I would love to have drop top. If I can find a mint E36 for a good price then I would probably jump on it before an S2K. We'll see what happens.

Thank you guys so much for all the information. The friendliness and willingness to help people that is found on Porsche forums is incredible. I will keep you guys updated on the car search.

[jerhofer]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

hey nice wheels jerhofer, really makes it look like the 93 concept car.
are those 10" in the rear?

Thanks.
They are 9.5" rears and 8" fronts.