Hey y'all!
In my quest to get this car through emissions inspection, I've now solved the o2 sensor issue I was having.
The only persisting issue now is an evap issue. Code po446, which i know can mean several things, but accompanying symptoms include strong gas odor and difficulty starting the first time after filling the tank.
Last weekend I popped-off the inner fender liner (front right) and unhooked the lines from all the various crap in there. I blew compressed air through the various hoses and didn't encounter any blockages that I could detect.
So the problem I have right now, is that I'm vague on what each item is, and what it is supposed to do, and when.
I searched this forum and Googled, and most discussions center around the purge valve under the intake plenum, left side. So with a test light, I've confirmed voltage at the valve..... but i don't know WHEN it's supposed to have voltage, or whether that voltage opens or closes the valve, so i can't really test the valve.
I could use a basic flowchart-type narrative of the entire evap system. Can y'all help me? Or steer me somewhere where it's already laid-out for me?
__________________
“Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
Thank you, JFP. you're always good for the details, man!
I saw this diagram previously, and it's somewhat useful (though I'll confess that the stuff under the fender liner doesn't look a LOT like that, haha).
But what I could really use to accompany this diagram, is a flow-chart narrative:
"when xyz happens, valve A opens and releases gasses to CDE"
and "under these conditions, the purge valve should get voltage, which opens/closes the valve....."
etc etc.
Y'know? I can't tell which parts aren't working the way they should, because I cant ell which part is supposed to do what, or when it's supposed to do it.
I'm afraid it's all too very-much like plumbing. And I really SUCK at plumbing.
OK, P0446 indicates that the EVAP canister shutoff valve is operating below flow limits. Normally this is caused by the purge air line (#3 in diagram) being blocked. Normally, this can be fixed by disconnecting the line at both ends and blowing compressed air thru it to clear it. If this line is clear, the only other possibility is that the flow thru the EVAP canister carbon bed is blocked, which requires replacing the canister.
__________________
“Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
OK, P0446 indicates that the EVAP canister shutoff valve is operating below flow limits. Normally this is caused by the purge air line (#3 in diagram) being blocked. Normally, this can be fixed by disconnecting the line at both ends and blowing compressed air thru it to clear it. If this line is clear, the only other possibility is that the flow thru the EVAP canister carbon bed is blocked, which requires replacing the canister.
Thank you, JFP!
Before I hit "buy" on a replacement canister: no chance I've got a problem at the purge valve? It's definitely the canister? (I've blown the lines already)
I would check the valve first, it can also get plugged or become inoperative.
__________________
“Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
Meanwhile, I'm replacing the fuel line vent valve on a car that spits out gas when you try to fill it. I hope you don't mind if I add this here for future reference to the evap system for others who end up here.
This tech article is on the 996 section of the PelicanParts DIYs, but it is identical to the system on my '01 986:
Maytag - I'm going to be pulling the evap system out of a parts car (low flood damage). Let me know if you want any cheap 'probably good' parts from an '01.
__________________ I am not an attorney, mechanic, or member of the clergy. Following any advice given in my posts is done at your own peril.
I would check the valve first, it can also get plugged or become inoperative.
That's what I'd like to do.... but I'm too fuzzy still. I assume the valve is holding vacuum from the intake, right? Or is it holding pressure from the tank / evap?
And should it be "open" or "Closed" (flowing either vacuum or pressure) when voltage is applied?
And under what circumstances is that voltage applied / not applied?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 78F350
Maytag - I'm going to be pulling the evap system out of a parts car (low flood damage). Let me know if you want any cheap 'probably good' parts from an '01.
That sounds very interesting to me. ABSOLUTELY. I'd say let's think about the canister & the purge valve and whatever else makes sense right there.
I really is not important if the valve faces pressure or vacuum, only that it works when power is applied, and that when it is open, there is flow through it.
The EVAP system is supposed to absorb (actually adsorb, but that is another science lesson) hydrocarbon vapor accumulating in the fuel tank onto the activated charcoal in the cannister; under the correct operating conditions (warm engine, high intake system vacuum), the purge line opens, sweeping air thru the cannister media and pulling the hydrocarbons into the intake to be burned rather than released to the atmosphere as they were with the vents on older fuel systems. The the lines need to be clear, and the valves have to open on command from the DME to get rid of the vapors.
__________________
“Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
I really is not important if the valve faces pressure or vacuum, only that it works when power is applied, and that when it is open, there is flow through it.
The EVAP system is supposed to absorb (actually adsorb, but that is another science lesson) hydrocarbon vapor accumulating in the fuel tank onto the activated charcoal in the cannister; under the correct operating conditions (warm engine, high intake system vacuum), the purge line opens, sweeping air thru the cannister media and pulling the hydrocarbons into the intake to be burned rather than released to the atmosphere as they were with the vents on older fuel systems. The the lines need to be clear, and the valves have to open on command from the DME to get rid of the vapors.
aaaahhhhhh this is good stuff, JFP! I understood, of course, the 100k foot view of what it is supposed to do, but not the mechanics of it.
So here's where I'm at then: Cold engine, I have voltage at the purge valve. didn't bother to pull it out yet to check it, because it's a PITA to get to, and I didn't have any way of knowing if voltage should be opening or closing it.
So SHOULD I have voltage when the engine is cold? And if the answer is yes, then I can assume the valve is normally-open, and the voltage holds it closed. Yes?
OR - do I have a problem in the control someplace, indicated by the presence of voltage when cold?
When you say you have voltage at the purge valve, is that key on or off? And where is the valve you are testing, in the wheel well or under the intake manifold?
__________________
“Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
When you say you have voltage at the purge valve, is that key on or off? And where is the valve you are testing, in the wheel well or under the intake manifold?
Details! that is with the key on, and it's the valve under the intake. Engine off and cold.
Details! that is with the key on, and it's the valve under the intake. Engine off and cold.
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That valve is under intake level vacuum and connected to the intake near the throttle body (item#20):
It should show 12V with the key on and be open under electrical power.
__________________
“Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
It should show 12V with the key on and be open under electrical power.
there's the nugget I was looking for!
But your question makes me wonder: is there ANOTHER purge valve somewhere that you thought I might've been referring to? Should I be checking a DIFFERENT valve?
But your question makes me wonder: is there ANOTHER purge valve somewhere that you thought I might've been referring to? Should I be checking a DIFFERENT valve?
The operating purge valve at the cannister (item #7 in the top drawing).
__________________
“Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
Maytag, we can keep our price discussion private (I know that Ferrari guys have lots of money), but it's easiest for me to just put pics here.
You asked about 3 things, but how about the other one that sits forward in the fender? It has two electrical valves and one hose to the charcoal box and another that goes to behind the fuel filler lid.
The fuel line vent valve mount cracked while I was taking it off. I plastic welded it "Stronger than new".
Purge valve under the intake: closed with no power, open with +12v. (test equipment not included)
__________________ I am not an attorney, mechanic, or member of the clergy. Following any advice given in my posts is done at your own peril.
Maytag, we can keep our price discussion private (I know that Ferrari guys have lots of money), but it's easiest for me to just put pics here.
You asked about 3 things, but how about the other one that sits forward in the fender? It has two electrical valves and one hose to the charcoal box and another that goes to behind the fuel filler lid.
The fuel line vent valve mount cracked while I was taking it off. I plastic welded it "Stronger than new".
Purge valve under the intake: closed with no power, open with +12v. (test equipment not included)
Perfect.
And you know we're all broke from the cars, right? If we have money, it's spent in more cars. ;-)
Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but - I had p0446 , then purged the lines, and now have p0447. Not as many details about this code but seems like the valve under intake has gone bad. Any consensus on this?
P0447 is the code for an open circuit on the EVAP canister shut off valve at the EVAP canister. Wiring fault or it is disconnected.
__________________
“Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
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I assume the valve is holding vacuum from the intake, right? Or is it holding pressure from the tank / evap? 
that is with the key on, and it's the valve under the intake. Engine off and cold. 
Linear Mode
