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Old 07-01-2018, 11:34 AM   #1
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Rebuild the motor? Or replace?

Hey y'all:
I've decided I really like this car, and I should keep it. With that in mind, I'm in the early stages of considering my options going forward.
My car is an '03 S. It has nearly 150k miles on it. The motor runs very well, but at this mileage, it probably is tired. As far as i know, original ims. The 6-spd works well, but has just begun exhibiting the 2nd gear pop-out.

3 options I see:
1. Sell it, buy another with lower mileage.
2. Rebuild this motor.
3. Replace the motor with a lower - mileage, used motor.


I'd love some assistance in thinking through this over the next couple of weeks.
?


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Old 07-01-2018, 11:40 AM   #2
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Sounds like both motor and tranny will need repairs. You probably won't get much with needed repairs; so I say repair engine and drive train and keep it
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Old 07-01-2018, 04:21 PM   #3
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Buy one of the RND engines on clearance sale now for $8,500. While the trans is out replace the gear lube with Porsche specified lube & install the Gbox 2nd gear detent. Then start saving up to replace entire suspension. ( Much easier while engine is out)
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Old 07-02-2018, 10:19 AM   #4
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If you love this car then fix it. Just know you are doing it for love of the car and you will not get your money back on resale. If you just like Boxster's then buy a lower mileage example. There still pretty plentiful and you have a few for sale on this forum that would likely work.
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Old 07-02-2018, 11:44 PM   #5
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I wouldn’t mess with the engine till it dies, or shows very significant issues. The trans, as mentioned, change the fluid with Porsche Unicorn blood and do the detent. Both reletively easy. Might be worth while to do your motor mount and shifter as well. If your motor mount is original I am 100% sure it is toast and can make all the difference shifting. No reason you can’t see well north of 200k on your motor.
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Old 07-03-2018, 01:42 AM   #6
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I would go for the crate engine, maybe even buy one store it until your engine dies. All the work and parts in that engine are worth the $8500.

But you may want to evaluate the car as a whole interior, exterior, and mechanical before you decide on a path. Bonus is you know what you have and will know mech condition after the work you do, on the flip side you will spend more than the car is worth at this point in time.
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Old 07-04-2018, 11:06 AM   #7
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A little surprised by many of the comments. I'm with G3 and fix the transmission & run the engine until there is evidence of an issue with the engine. You are posting this in the performance section, but you don't say this is a heavy track day car. If you are focused on the track, then it might make sense to ignore my comment. But based on your original note, no need to spend that kind of $$s at this point imo.
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Old 07-11-2018, 02:00 PM   #8
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The RND special deal price is a steal. The alternative of doing a correct rebuild to RND standards would cost you way more. The degree of precision required to rebuild is astonishing if you do it correctly.The number and cost of special tools is eye watering. Just ask the few diy guys who have done an M96 after the Raby class, how much it cost them. Huge difference between doing it correctly and a mere 'refresh' job.
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Old 07-11-2018, 08:14 PM   #9
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thanks, everyone, for your responses.

By way or responding to some of the points that have come up n those responses:

1. No way in HELL am I spending $8500 on a motor for a car I spent $7k for, haha. Not happening. if it comes to that, I'll buy another $7k car and drive the wheels off of THAT one TOO! :-)

2. Yeah, I know I'll never get the $$ out of the repairs if I decide to sell it. I'm not terribly concerned about that at this stage, as we're not talking about large sums of money (relatively-speaking).

3. Yes, the car will need to see several track days per year, if it's gonna stay in my stable, but it is primarily a street car.

I think I'm going to do as a couple of you have suggested: stay ontop of the maintenance and drive it! :-)

I've got a 2nd- gear detent on order, and some other goodies. we'll be a little more thorough over the winter.
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Old 07-12-2018, 05:44 AM   #10
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As an old guy who has built many track cars, and now owns a 2004 Boxster, and have learned a great deal about these beauties, you will NEVER be able to do a garage refresh of your tired engine by yourself for less than $8,000.

If you are not willing to drop $8K in that car, then just sell her now and buy another one while they are still at the bottom of the depreciation curve.

Don’t fall in love with any car. They are just cars. There are plenty of fish in the sea.

Let us know how that 2nd gear thingy works.
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:04 AM   #11
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If you are not willing to drop $8K in that car, then just sell her now and buy another one while they are still at the bottom of the depreciation curve.
What would that gain me, exactly? that doesn't seem to make any sense.

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Don’t fall in love with any car. They are just cars. There are plenty of fish in the sea.
yeah.... ok. I'm a car guy. I've loved (nearly) EVERY car I've owned, and this one is #74.

Last edited by maytag; 07-12-2018 at 06:06 AM.
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Old 07-12-2018, 04:10 PM   #12
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Sounds like both motor and tranny will need repairs. You probably won't get much with needed repairs; so I say repair engine and drive train and keep it
I concur with CIAO, at least you know exactly what you have when you rebuild. You can rebuild your engine for less money that a crate engine, plus do you know what you are really getting for the big bucks.
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Old 07-12-2018, 04:42 PM   #13
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"You can rebuild your engine for less money that a crate engine, plus do you know what you are really getting for the big bucks. "
I beg to differ.
Just ask someone who has rebuilt an M96 after taking a Raby class- how much did they spend on special tools,machine work,parts? The RND long block allows you to void many of the expensive special tools.It also lets you skip the difficult measurements and fitting tasks. It all depends on the standards you work to .
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Old 07-12-2018, 04:59 PM   #14
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Just ask someone who has rebuilt an M96 after taking a Raby class- how much did they spend on special tools,machine work,parts? The RND long block allows you to void many of the expensive special tools.It also lets you skip the difficult measurements and fitting tasks. It all depends on the standards you work to .
So, I have no idea what a raby class is. Maybe cuz I'm new to Porsche? But, I have done many true "blueprint" rebuilds of motors over the years. I'm not concerned about "complicated measurements", or the "difficult fitting" of parts.
I am sure there is an expensive curve on specialty tools. How many can there really be for which I can't find a workaround? I don't know. I would have to investigate. Why don't we have a rental pool on this forum?

But seriously, $8,500 for a motor to go in a car that I can replace for $7,000? Does that add up in your mind?

No, mine either.

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Old 07-12-2018, 05:01 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelbster View Post
"You can rebuild your engine for less money that a crate engine, plus do you know what you are really getting for the big bucks. "
I beg to differ.
Just ask someone who has rebuilt an M96 after taking a Raby class- how much did they spend on special tools,machine work,parts? The RND long block allows you to void many of the expensive special tools.It also lets you skip the difficult measurements and fitting tasks. It all depends on the standards you work to .
About $10,000, best money & labor I've every spent on any of my cars & there was nothing wrong with the 88K mile 3.2L before I started. Worth it every time I out run a 911
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Old 07-12-2018, 05:25 PM   #16
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Please listen to what Bill says above. He is one of the few here who has rebuilt M96 engines after a Raby class. The cost of that class alone exceeds a long block engine for normal cars.
There are some rebuild Threads here and on other Forums that mention some of the issues.Google Nutrod for example.
I am laboring this point because I don't want others to embark on an M96 rebuild saying "I've done plenty of LS1 motors so I can do an M96" You also need the M96 tools, and the M96 knowledge.
One little example of measuring tools required - you need to measure all the bores at 3 depths ,120 degrees apart at the same temperature,3 times and get the same results to 1/10th of 1 thou. This is how bore ovality and taper are determined for the M96. Once you have consistent results you need to focus on the worn areas and remeasure to ensure you understand the extent of the ovality & taper problem.Then you need pro advice on remediation if necessary. Discussing this issue alone has consumed hours of time among people who are really smart about M96 engines.That wouldn't be me. An FAA mechanic certification would be the level you are required t work at.
Suggest read as much as you can find ,list all your sources here and then ask questions.
In my case the reason for rebuilding myself was curiosity and challenge.It certainly made no financial sense. It cost me the same as 2 used Boxsters and a huge amount of time. Fascinating project but utter folly. :-). I am still driving it and happy with it !
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Old 07-13-2018, 07:23 AM   #17
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About $10,000, best money & labor I've every spent on any of my cars & there was nothing wrong with the 88K mile 3.2L before I started. Worth it every time I out run a 911
+ 1 on BYprodriver statement,

I was lucky to be able to attend one of the Jack Raby classes and learn a lot, and yes you need specialty tools to assemble this engine but there are several guys on the Planet9 club that have done it and you should not have any issues locating the tools.

If you really like your Porsche, after building yourself an engine, you will want to keep it for many, many years
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Old 07-13-2018, 09:26 AM   #18
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drive it till it blows, which may be never.

Then sell the roller, and move on to the next one
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:44 AM   #19
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Maytag....

....You ask, "What would that gain?"

Well, that WAS one of the options in your original post, so......
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Old 07-13-2018, 01:23 PM   #20
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+ 1 on BYprodriver statement,

I was lucky to be able to attend one of the Jack Raby classes and learn a lot, and yes you need specialty tools to assemble this engine but there are several guys on the Planet9 club that have done it and you should not have any issues locating the tools.

If you really like your Porsche, after building yourself an engine, you will want to keep it for many, many years


I plan to keep mine until I am too old to get in & out of it. If it gets totaled from a bad wreck, more than likely I can transplant my engine into another roller & make money from the insurance settlement.

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