to change oil or not????

[landrovered]

Where I live the average morning humidity is 81% and the average afternoon humidity is 54%. I have had a v8 seize solid on the engine stand full of oil in the garage. I'm not taking any chances, I am going to keep my cars running on a regular basis. Nice chatting with you though.

[jdraupp]

Originally Posted by morgal48

The Copernican response. Understood. I shall remain silent. No questioning or opinions.

If you have opinions that contribute to the conversation or bring new light to a subject I'd love to hear them. If you feel like spouting ignorant crap out of your mouth through your keyboard and you want to call someone an idiot who knows what they are talking about, then I look forward to your silence.

[landrovered]

Originally Posted by jdraupp

If you have opinions that contribute to the conversation or bring new light to a subject I'd love to hear them. If you feel like spouting ignorant crap out of your mouth through your keyboard and you want to call someone an idiot who knows what they are talking about, then I look forward to your silence.

Who died and left you king?

[jdraupp]

Originally Posted by landrovered

Who died and left you king?

Uhh I might be calling pot and kettle here friend.

I'm simply pointing out that I like reading posts that contribute to a thread. The guy I was originally talking about was the antithesis of contribution. I almost made a comment that I appreciated what you were adding to this discussion despite disagreeing with you...then you had to go and mess that up.

[Racer Boy]

I'm on several other forums, both motorcycle- and car-oriented. There is nothing like an oil thread (or chain-lube threads on the bike forums) to get people wound up.

As a newbie here, I'm relieved to see that Porsche owners are pretty much just like everyone else!

I do have something to contribute to the question of long-term storage of engines, though - I've read something by a noted aircraft mechanic who said that in every case he's seen where an engine (it is common for private aircraft to sit for long periods of time) sat for several months, then was disassembled before starting, the engines that had straight weight oils in them still had oil clinging to the working surfaces. The motors that had multiweight oils had no oil on the bearing surfaces. He theorized that something in the multiweight oils (likely the viscosity extenders) kept the oil from staying attached to the surfaces over time.

It's something to consider; if you are going to store your car for four or more months, and you aren't concerned about the cost of 9 quarts of oil, then you might fill it with straight weight oil, run it until it gets to operating temperature, then shut it down for the season. When it comes time to hit the road again, you can change the oil to the proper multi-viscosity stuff. (Probably heresy to say this, but you could probably even get away with not changing the filter if it was changed when the car was put away for the winter).

[morgal48]

[QUOTE=jdraupp;475583]If you have opinions that contribute to the conversation or bring new light to a subject I'd love to hear them. If you feel like spouting ignorant crap out of your mouth through your keyboard and you want to call someone an idiot who knows what they are talking about, then I look forward to your silence.[/QUOT

Well, well. Aren't you something. All of this over the knowledge that somebody else has. Man crush? This vitriol over changing oil in a car that's at least 11 years old. I have had the opportunity to spend time with a Porsche. One of the good doctor's grandsons. In his words, the people who are fanatical about his family's cars are mystifying. And comical. It's just a car. They don't get it. Me neither. Does this qualify as new light? See - it is fun. And you're funny.

[landrovered]

I am interested in how people store museum quality cars like the folks at the Porsche Museum. I also recognize that most of our cars are not museum pieces, not to say it is not good to do things right but in my mind it's like doing MRIs or chemo on a dog...not cost effective considering the economic value of the subject. Systems are available such as carcapsule.com or car bag.com and at least where I live in Georgia, dessicants and fogging cylinders are in order. Also temperature control seems to be the primary way to stop condensation from forming within the engine itself. There is an oil which claims to exceed the 500 hour humidity test used by the military and that is
Joe Gibbs racing oil in case you are interested.

[jdraupp]

Originally Posted by morgal48

Well, well. Aren't you something. All of this over the knowledge that somebody else has. Man crush? This vitriol over changing oil in a car that's at least 11 years old. I have had the opportunity to spend time with a Porsche. One of the good doctor's grandsons. In his words, the people who are fanatical about his family's cars are mystifying. And comical. It's just a car. They don't get it. Me neither. Does this qualify as new light? See - it is fun. And you're funny.

We would probably be less mystified by his family's cars if they didn't have a knack for coming apart at the drop of a hat due to a mysterious bearing. They require a great deal of maintenance to keep that from happening.

I'm not a qualified Porsche mechanic. At the same time I can't afford to send my car to one every time it needs something, so I do a lot of work myself. This forum is a wealth of information to me not only because of amateur mechanics who have been there done that, but also because of the high level professionals who freely offer advice on jobs they get paid a lot of money to do. If one day they decide to stop posting on this forum it would be a loss and I'm sure I'm not the only one who would feel that way.

Man crush? No it's something called respect. I was taught to hold it for those who have put the time into something to be the best at their craft. I hold even more of it for those who despite having no reason to do so decide to give back to others who are trying to understand the things they do. That's all.

[jdraupp]

Originally Posted by landrovered

I am interested in how people store museum quality cars like the folks at the Porsche Museum.

This sparked my interest. Found this link from the National Park service in regards to preparing a car for museum exhibition. Granted, its an older article, but this seems to address a lot of the things you'd talked about, but does still seem excessive for 4 month storage.

Link fixed: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwid6Kna8cnJAhWG6IMKHW8TAbkQFggfMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nps.gov%2Fmuseum%2Fpublicatio ns%2Fconserveogram%2F10-03.pdf&usg=AFQjCNHsR_jFBG4p9wQ6-GXp5Inqf9c0tQ&bvm=bv.108538919,d.amc

[landrovered]

Originally Posted by jdraupp

This sparked my interest. Found this link from the National Park service in regards to preparing a car for museum exhibition. Granted, its an older article, but this seems to address a lot of the things you'd talked about, but does still seem excessive for 4 month storage.

Link fixed: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwid6Kna8cnJAhWG6IMKHW8TAbkQFggfMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nps.gov%2Fmuseum%2Fpublicatio ns%2Fconserveogram%2F10-03.pdf&usg=AFQjCNHsR_jFBG4p9wQ6-GXp5Inqf9c0tQ&bvm=bv.108538919,d.amc

Thanks for this link. The clutch sticking concept was a new one for me...good stuff!

[jdraupp]

Originally Posted by landrovered

Thanks for this link. The clutch sticking concept was a new one for me...good stuff!

That was enlightening for me as well. I also find it interesting that they talk about axle stands and putting tires off the ground, letting suspension hang. Maybe another concept that is good for long term storage but not for short term. I've always heard that you don't want suspension hanging.

[landrovered]

You can put the jack stands on the lower control arms and keep the suspension compressed while the tires are off the ground. Flat spotting was the worst part of the 993 resurrection I did. The car was being used infrequently, the owner would start it from time to time then it wouldn't start any more so it sat for five years gathering dust. The fuel was gelled, I replaced the fuel pump as it was the reason the car would not start. I drained the bad gas and cleaned out the fuel system and got it running. It took quite a while for the tires to round out. Also it smoked like a banshee until the oil from the heat exchangers burned out of the exhaust (a common thing with air cooled 911s that have been sitting). Flat spotting is a concern IMO for an over winter storage. There is a product called raceramps that prevents flat spotting without jacking the car but they are $180 a set.

[jdraupp]

Yes flat spotting is a concern, I just find it easier to over inflate the tires rather than using jack stands, but I did not know that you could compress the suspension by utilizing the control arms as jack points.

Sad to see someone let a 993 get that bad. You own it now I assume?

[BYprodriver]

Originally Posted by morgal48

This is fun. And funny! What about gear oil in the transmission? Sounds like it should be changed twice a year as well - lots of metal, oil and heat. My personal favorite is the slap to the poster with "only 10 posts". Is it the consensus that he's an idiot, cause with only 10 posts, how could he know anything? Now I fear I'll be shamed due to lack of posts. What is the minimum to be one of the "guys" here? I feel like a victim of Lackofpostsism, and we need the DOJ on this stat!

The minimum is to not detract from the forum as you are attempting to do.

[JayG]

Originally Posted by BYprodriver

The minimum is to not detract from the forum as you are attempting to do.

and not be an asshat

[JayG]

Originally Posted by jdraupp

This sparked my interest. Found this link from the National Park service in regards to preparing a car for museum exhibition. Granted, its an older article, but this seems to address a lot of the things you'd talked about, but does still seem excessive for 4 month storage.

Link fixed: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwid6Kna8cnJAhWG6IMKHW8TAbkQFggfMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nps.gov%2Fmuseum%2Fpublicatio ns%2Fconserveogram%2F10-03.pdf&usg=AFQjCNHsR_jFBG4p9wQ6-GXp5Inqf9c0tQ&bvm=bv.108538919,d.amc

Interesting info

It all makes sense for what is basically changing the car from drivable to display and undrivable.

With short term storage for those that don't want drive their cars during the winter that would be extremely excessive.

Like many things, including oil, IMSB, tires, brakes, etc., its your car do what you want with it. If you choose to ignore advise from those who know, feel free to.

For me, if I was to store the car for a few months, $60 in oil is a small price to pay for possibly preventing a problem later

[jdraupp]

Originally Posted by JayG

Interesting info

It all makes sense for what is basically changing the car from drivable to display and undrivable.

With short term storage for those that don't want drive their cars during the winter that would be extremely excessive.

Like many things, including oil, IMSB, tires, brakes, etc., its your car do what you want with it. If you choose to ignore advise from those who know, feel free to.

For me, if I was to store the car for a few months, $60 in oil is a small price to pay for possibly preventing a problem later

Yeah I feel the same way. I'd rather have someone laugh at me for my overkill maintenance habits than be laughing at me for having a roller that I could've done something about.

I'm also going to be checking museum car to see if the clutch has been blocked now. Lol.

[landrovered]

Originally Posted by jdraupp

Sad to see someone let a 993 get that bad. You own it now I assume?

I wish, no it is a customers car. Gorgeous 98 993 imported by owner from Germany (he is German). Wide body with more rubber than I have ever seen under a 993.

[mikefocke]

I lived in Northern VA where the temperatures got to maybe 15F but seldom lower. I stored my car outside for 5 years in winters on an asphalt driveway with a car cover over it (Noah fabric) and a cTec battery maintainer plugged in via a long extension cord. There were times I'd scrape ice or 8" of snow off the cover to take it out (I didn't buy the car to collect it or expect appreciation.). As long as the roads were thawed and the temps were over 40F (as I had summer tires). I probably hibernated it no more than 3 or 4 weeks before I got a chance to take it out and when I did I went 20+ miles one way and as much on the return. Never an issue. Never had a UOA done but also never saw any symptoms I could attribute to sitting that long or using it in that pattern. I did 5k oil changes with good but not great oil, not slavish with any one brand. I just heard from the fifth owner and he says the engine is doing fine.

[JayG]

Originally Posted by mikefocke

I lived in Northern VA where the temperatures got to maybe 15F but seldom lower. I stored my car outside for 5 years in winters on an asphalt driveway with a car cover over it (Noah fabric) and a cTec battery maintainer plugged in via a long extension cord. There were times I'd scrape ice or 8" of snow off the cover to take it out (I didn't buy the car to collect it or expect appreciation.). As long as the roads were thawed and the temps were over 40F (as I had summer tires). I probably hibernated it no more than 3 or 4 weeks before I got a chance to take it out and when I did I went 20+ miles one way and as much on the return. Never an issue. Never had a UOA done but also never saw any symptoms I could attribute to sitting that long or using it in that pattern. I did 5k oil changes with good but not great oil, not slavish with any one brand. I just heard from the fifth owner and he says the engine is doing fine.

That's the way to own a Porsche. Don't be afraid of driving it in the winter