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Old 12-02-2015, 02:06 AM   #1
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IMS Failure

Well, we all think it's going to happen to someone else..

2004 Boxster S Tip with 60k and left an oil mark on the garage floor. Since discovery, no implosion, no bang and siezure the car has not been driven and was towed onto a car transporter and moved to someone who knows the M96 engine.

The thought process was to replace the IMS with the ceramic..

Initial look shows from the oil filter a lot of metal.

The question is what do from here ! I may well be calling Jake this afternoon if i can find a number !

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Old 12-02-2015, 02:20 AM   #2
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While you have several options, running this engine is not one of them. Once significant metal shows up in the oil or filter, the engine has to come apart as there is no proven way to remove the metal bits without doing so. Give Jake a call, I'm sure they will also confirm this for you.

info@flat6innovations.com or 706.865.1963

Good luck.
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Old 12-02-2015, 06:39 AM   #3
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Sorry to hear. Engine rebuild or replacement with a used unit are the only options. Being that you are in the UK aren't there local Porsche specialist there that can help?

I've been on this forum for a couple years now and as much talk as their use to be on this issue I just don't see alot of forum members talking about this happening to their car. Is it that a significant number of the members replaced their IMS bearing significantly reducing the risk or is it that actual failure is pretty low? I replaced mine 2 years ago and I am glad that I did.
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Old 12-02-2015, 08:58 AM   #4
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Bruce,
If you are in U.K., Hartech is more convenient?They certainly seem totally competent.
Porsche servicing, repairs, engine rebuilds, reconditioned wishbones and cars for sale - near Bolton, North West England.
Having recently done my own M96 rebuild I can confirm the problem of metal debris. But ,I had an LN filter/adapter. So there was very little debris anywhere but the filter :-). My IMS did not fail ,it was the beginning of a c/s bearing failure.
In your case, you might test the debris - is it metallic or not? What colour is it?

Last edited by Gelbster; 12-02-2015 at 02:11 PM.
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Old 12-02-2015, 09:30 AM   #5
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Hope all the best for ya!

My car, which just turned 15 with 50.000km, leaves oil marks on my garage floor for at least 10 years now, maybe longer.

If it sits toooo long in the garage it leaks...have to take it walkies then, I guess. Actually I get more concerned now, if it does not leak.
Had a big service inspection at the dealership recently...nothing...all good "knocking on wood"
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Old 12-02-2015, 10:38 AM   #6
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I'm sure being in the UK you know of Boxsa.net as an online resource for local advice.

Over the years, I've collected many people's thoughts on the options you may have if your engine is blown here.

There are causes of failure other than the IMS though your car does have the most failure prone version.

If you go the from a wreck replacement route, do a few things like a modern design IMS, AOS, engine mount and water pump while the engine is out as those are your most common points of failure.

If you rebuild your block, make sure they know how to do it right first removing all the little bits that are circulating around in the oil passages.

11 year old car, stuff happens.

Good luck.
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Old 12-02-2015, 12:05 PM   #7
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Thanks guys. I've communicated with Jake

Apologies for the lack of clarity on the earlier post - as other posters have mentioned. debris in the makes this a different picture !

I would rather keep the orginal engine if possible. Going the 'motor from a wreck' route is pretty much a waste of time IMO as it's an unknown entity and just as likely to fail,... there or anywhere else. without having traceablity on the engine its pointless. for me.. for others maybe fine, just not for me.

putting a replacement bearing, of any type, with metal moving about is again pointless. it's work, effeort and energy as well as money wasted just to kill it again.

what i am thinking about now is having the engine dropped out and a partial tear down and flushed out. when i say partial tear down, i mean not going to split the block and do a full tear down back to every nut and bolt ...I'm doing that right now on a Rover V8 engine from a 1971 Range Rover i'm in the process of doing a full body restoration on.. along with a Range Rover CSK i am restoring too. I'm also going overseas on a new job next month so the cars will get a little bit at a time, having broken the back of the big jobs.

I wont be doing the boxster engine, i dont have the space or the tooling to fully tear down an M96 engine. The car is with a garage that knows Porsches. I'm in no rush. But i dont want to go the route of dropping the engine pushing it in with the other cars on my list of 'to do's' and deal with it another time. But the car is too good to break. 60k 3 owners from new not trashed and thrashed..


The good news though.. the 2001 986 S 6speed is going fine !!
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Last edited by Bruce Wayne; 12-02-2015 at 12:16 PM.
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Old 12-02-2015, 04:11 PM   #8
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Always the heretic, I have ideas on fixing this without drama or going broke. First, the engine is what it is at this point. Taking that into account, why not drop the pan, remove all of the scrap iron you can out of the engine, replace the IMSB with a fully sealed greased bearing, use rare earth magnets on the oil pan and oil filter housing, and keep on driving? I did something very similar (though more thorough due to a complete IMSB and shaft meltdown) nearly 12,000 miles ago and I'm truckin' along at redline near every day. Don't drink the Koolaid. These engines can be fixed affordably even if there is metal in the oil. PM me if you are interested in what I found when I repaired my engine after a complete IMSB failure.
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Old 12-02-2015, 04:15 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesp View Post
Always the heretic, I have ideas on fixing this without drama or going broke. First, the engine is what it is at this point. Taking that into account, why not drop the pan, remove all of the scrap iron you can out of the engine, replace the IMSB with a fully sealed greased bearing, use rare earth magnets on the oil pan and oil filter housing, and keep on driving? I did something very similar (though more thorough due to a complete IMSB and shaft meltdown) nearly 12,000 miles ago and I'm truckin' along at redline near every day. Don't drink the Koolaid. These engines can be fixed affordably even if there is metal in the oil. PM me if you are interested in what I found when I repaired my engine after a complete IMSB failure.
Hang on, let me get my popcorn.
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Old 12-02-2015, 04:45 PM   #10
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But if the metal in the OP's filter is not magnetic(c/s bearing material?) or it is bits of plastic...
Suggest first the debris in the filter needs to be identified with confidence. Then we can discuss options.
The LN Filter suggestion conforms to the mechanics Hippocratic oath.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesp View Post
Always the heretic, I have ideas on fixing this without drama or going broke. First, the engine is what it is at this point. Taking that into account, why not drop the pan, remove all of the scrap iron you can out of the engine, replace the IMSB with a fully sealed greased bearing, use rare earth magnets on the oil pan and oil filter housing, and keep on driving? I did something very similar (though more thorough due to a complete IMSB and shaft meltdown) nearly 12,000 miles ago and I'm truckin' along at redline near every day. Don't drink the Koolaid. These engines can be fixed affordably even if there is metal in the oil. PM me if you are interested in what I found when I repaired my engine after a complete IMSB failure.
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Old 12-02-2015, 05:04 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelbster View Post
But if the metal in the OP's filter is not magnetic(c/s bearing material?) or it is bits of plastic...
Suggest first the debris in the filter needs to be identified with confidence. Then we can discuss options.
The LN Filter suggestion conforms to the mechanics Hippocratic oath.
This is a good point. Non magnetic points to failures other than IMSB and should be assessed on their own merit. Chain ramps, variocam (depending on year) or other failure. Thanks for bringing up this clarification.
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Last edited by Jamesp; 12-02-2015 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 12-04-2015, 06:18 PM   #12
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Bruce.
What was your oil change intervals?

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