which ims bearing upgrade

[Gelbster]

Boxster in Malta :
Please keep asking questions. They may seem trivial to the experts and they may get impatient with you .But even Jake has responded to you. The questions you have asked probably have concerned others who were to afraid of the 'responses' to ask.
Because of your questions some interesting facts have emerged - for example who knew about Jake's statistic on oil found/not found in the IMS tube with various bearing & seal arrangements ?
An enquiring mind should be welcomed here.
Thank you for your questions.
Cam plugs - in view of your location, perhaps EBay Germany would be a good source? Part # is 99610421554

[mikefocke]

Isn't the water pump failure and either resultant overheating and/or fouling of coolant passages a failure that should be added to the list? At least it is a do-it-yourself.

Put enough people who have owned enough cars for enough years and have used them in enough ways and you'll get a long list of failures. On any car. I frequent some other car forums and they have similar lists especially for cars this old. Remember when cars this old would have rusted out by now? 356, 912, 914, etc era.

[boxster]

Originally Posted by Gelbster

Boxster in Malta :
Please keep asking questions. They may seem trivial to the experts and they may get impatient with you .But even Jake has responded to you. The questions you have asked probably have concerned others who were to afraid of the 'responses' to ask.
Because of your questions some interesting facts have emerged - for example who knew about Jake's statistic on oil found/not found in the IMS tube with various bearing & seal arrangements ?
An enquiring mind should be welcomed here.
Thank you for your questions.
Cam plugs - in view of your location, perhaps EBay Germany would be a good source? Part # is 99610421554

Hehe, thanks for your comment, I know that sometimes I might go too far with my questions,but since as I said before I know nothing in this field,I like learning new stuff and i learned a lot in this thread, never imagined it would turn out the way it did, and I must admit I found it very entertaining and interesting. I was just looking for an independent unbiased opinion of what the forum members think Is the best ims replacement bearing available and lo and behold the manufacturers got involved as well��. I know people like Jake raby must be sick of hearing these questions,and find certain questions silly,but I like to be given reasons as to WHY things work the way they do, instead of "because thats the way it is". I ask not to get people annoyed but to learn from people who know much more than me and who I know are professional in their work. Thanks for guiding me where to buy cam plug covers,ill order them as soon as I'm SURE which direction to go to regarding the ims bearing. Now I'm sorry,but im going to ask one of those "annoying" questions that I know would drive the manufacturers up the wall. To my ignorance I would think that the DOF together with the retrofit ceramic bearing would be the best of both worlds. Is it, or would both applications together be a hazard to each other? I know people say ceramic bearings can withstand high operating temperatures,but would they be "happier" working in more oil or not? And another thing, I just learned that there are full ceramic bearings and hybrid bearings,where apparently the cage is still made of steel. Any idea why the retrofit kit isn't full ceramic?

[Gelbster]

Sometimes the best(?) answer is to just follow what has worked best for others .
No need for DOF + Hybrid ceramic bearing. Splash is sufficient. If you wanted to experiment, you could buy a DOF kit and substitute a hybrid ceramic bearing for the generic steel bearing usually included.The generic bearing is only worth $5.
Nobody sells a full ceramic IMSB?
TechnoFix DOF - Solves the IMS issue in 1997 - 2008 Porsches
Is this what you mean? check size.
http://www.amazon.com/6204-2RS-Bearing-Hybrid-Ceramic-20x47x14/dp/B002BBEYNU
A bigger challenge may be to find an IMSB tool kit at a reasonable price that ships to Malta?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intermediate-Shaft-Seal-IMS-Retrofit-Pro-Tool-Kit-for-Boxster-986-996-997-99-/131377522345?hash=item1e96b5e6a9:g:h-wAAOSw0vBUi2es

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by boxster

Hehe, thanks for your comment, I know that sometimes I might go too far with my questions,but since as I said before I know nothing in this field,I like learning new stuff and i learned a lot in this thread, never imagined it would turn out the way it did, and I must admit I found it very entertaining and interesting. I was just looking for an independent unbiased opinion of what the forum members think Is the best ims replacement bearing available and lo and behold the manufacturers got involved as well��. I know people like Jake raby must be sick of hearing these questions,and find certain questions silly,but I like to be given reasons as to WHY things work the way they do, instead of "because thats the way it is". I ask not to get people annoyed but to learn from people who know much more than me and who I know are professional in their work. Thanks for guiding me where to buy cam plug covers,ill order them as soon as I'm SURE which direction to go to regarding the ims bearing. Now I'm sorry,but im going to ask one of those "annoying" questions that I know would drive the manufacturers up the wall. To my ignorance I would think that the DOF together with the retrofit ceramic bearing would be the best of both worlds. Is it, or would both applications together be a hazard to each other? I know people say ceramic bearings can withstand high operating temperatures,but would they be "happier" working in more oil or not? And another thing, I just learned that there are full ceramic bearings and hybrid bearings,where apparently the cage is still made of steel. Any idea why the retrofit kit isn't full ceramic?

Simple: It doesn't need to be.

The LN bearing performs excellently without a direct source of engine oil; the 20K+ units running around on the street attest to that fact. And, if LN could think of any circumstance where an oil feed system would be advantageous, they are perfectly capable of producing one, after all, they make the IMS Solution kits, but they have never seen the need.

You are way, way overthinking this. We have customers that put less the 1K miles on their cars every year, and those cars are LN equipped; none have ever had a problem. Other customers with LN bearings average over 35K a year, with the exact same results. The system works, exactly the way it is designed to work.

This entire dialog entered the "paralysis by analysis" mode about a week ago..........

[10/10ths]

......stop worrying and start enjoying life.

We are all going to die someday.

You can drive yourself crazy worrying about a meteorite strike, an IMS failure, or the heartbreak of Psoriasis.

Just ship your car to Flat 6 Innovations and have them do for you what they did for me and start enjoying that car and living life.

Just do it.

The sooner you do, the sooner you can sleep at night.

[boxster]

Originally Posted by Gelbster

Sometimes the best(?) answer is to just follow what has worked best for others .
No need for DOF + Hybrid ceramic bearing. Splash is sufficient. If you wanted to experiment, you could buy a DOF kit and substitute a hybrid ceramic bearing for the generic steel bearing usually included.The generic bearing is only worth $5.
Nobody sells a full ceramic IMSB?
TechnoFix DOF - Solves the IMS issue in 1997 - 2008 Porsches
Is this what you mean? check size.
6204-2RS Bearing Hybrid Ceramic Sealed 20x47x14: Deep Groove Ball Bearings: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
A bigger challenge may be to find an IMSB tool kit at a reasonable price that ships to Malta?
Intermediate Shaft Seal IMS Retrofit Pro Tool Kit for Boxster 986 996 997 99 | eBay

I was just curious as to why LN dont do their bearing fully ceramic,is it cause of cost,or is a hybrid ceramic the best way to go? Is it the cage or the balls themselves that will fail first in a hybrid ceramic bearing? Yes,thats the sight I will have to buy everything from, design 911 in the UK,including bearings. Nothing comes cheap, thats the problem,its gonna coast literally thousands to get this done,since shipping is quite expensive,and I'm going to be ordering clutch kit and flywheel as well, so that's why I want to spend wisely �� I think I get the impression that the majority here lean towards LN's bearings,right? Btw,how many cam covers will I need to replace on a 5 chain car, is it 2? And do you know the part number for the micro encapsulated bolts as well? Design 911 sell micro encapsulated bolts for clutch and flywheel,any idea I those fit the ims bearing flange?

[boxster]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Simple: It doesn't need to be.

The LN bearing performs excellently without a direct source of engine oil; the 20K+ units running around on the street attest to that fact. And, if LN could think of any circumstance where an oil feed system would be advantageous, they are perfectly capable of producing one, after all, they make the IMS Solution kits, but they have never seen the need.

You are way, way overthinking this. We have customers that put less the 1K miles on their cars every year, and those cars are LN equipped; none have ever had a problem. Other customers with LN bearings average over 35K a year, with the exact same results. The system works, exactly the way it is designed to work.

This entire dialog entered the "paralysis by analysis" mode about a week ago..........

You are right,I do overthink sometimes,lol!! What I still cant do understand is why LN life their bearings at only 4&6 years respectively for the single and double row,or 50k and 75k miles.
Since many cars have done much more than that on the original bearings and their bearings are proven to be much stronger I would have thought they'd have a longer life

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by 10/10ths

......stop worrying and start enjoying life.

We are all going to die someday.

You can drive yourself crazy worrying about a meteorite strike, an IMS failure, or the heartbreak of Psoriasis.

Just ship your car to Flat 6 Innovations and have them do for you what they did for me and start enjoying that car and living life.

Just do it.

The sooner you do, the sooner you can sleep at night.

Not all ideas or combinations are good ones............

[boxster]

Originally Posted by 10/10ths

......stop worrying and start enjoying life.

We are all going to die someday.

You can drive yourself crazy worrying about a meteorite strike, an IMS failure, or the heartbreak of Psoriasis.

Just ship your car to Flat 6 Innovations and have them do for you what they did for me and start enjoying that car and living life.

Just do it.

The sooner you do, the sooner you can sleep at night.

If I could,I would do that,but for me to ship it to them would probably cost me more than the car is worth!!

[Jake Raby]

A full ceramic bearing would cost around 3K per unit to have made. On top of that the compatibility between the ceramic balls and the hardened steel races is NOT an issue. The only time it becomes an issue is when debris contamination finds its way between these surfaces.

This will happen with any portion of the engine, not just the IMSB, the same things happens with cylinder and piston wear, and the list goes on.

Just ship your car to Flat 6 Innovations and have them do for you what they did for me and start enjoying that car and living life.

Just do it.

The sooner you do, the sooner you can sleep at night

That makes too much sense. Thats too easy.

[boxster]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

A full ceramic bearing would cost around 3K per unit to have made. On top of that the compatibility between the ceramic balls and the hardened steel races is NOT an issue. The only time it becomes an issue is when debris contamination finds its way between these surfaces.

This will happen with any portion of the engine, not just the IMSB, the same things happens with cylinder and piston wear, and the list goes on.




That makes too much sense. Thats too easy.

Thats great to know, that there's no issue with the steel races and the ceramic balls!

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by boxster

Thats great to know, that there's no issue with the steel races and the ceramic balls!

If their was an issue we'd not be even having this conversation. Remember over TWENTY THOUSAND of the ceramic hybrid bearings have been installed worldwide. If any issues existed it would have gone viral in 2008, but it didn't, because, that didn't happen. The very first IMSR that was carried out used a ceramic ball bearing just like LN sells today. That engine is alive almost a decade after retrofit, and still has the original retrofit bearing.

The vast majority of ceramic bearings are hybrid, with silicon nitride balls, and specially treated steel races, just like this. This includes those used in aviation/ aerospace and every other application out there.

Those who want to omit all the wear parts step up the the IMS Solution.

[boxster]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

If their was an issue we'd not be even having this conversation. Remember over TWENTY THOUSAND of the ceramic hybrid bearings have been installed worldwide. If any issues existed it would have gone viral in 2008, but it didn't, because, that didn't happen. The very first IMSR that was carried out used a ceramic ball bearing just like LN sells today. That engine is alive almost a decade after retrofit, and still has the original retrofit bearing.

The vast majority of ceramic bearings are hybrid, with silicon nitride balls, and specially treated steel races, just like this. This includes those used in aviation/ aerospace and every other application out there.

Those who want to omit all the wear parts step up the the IMS Solution.

The ims solution would be the best option for sure,but I'm thinking it will be about another year till ill be able to get hold of it where I live!
The question I asked before was,why do you "life" your bearings at such low milage/years since theyre so much better than the original bearings and many many cars are known to have gone beyond 100k miles on their original bearings? Will I still need to change my double row retrofit bearing in five or six years time,even if it has lets say 20k miles on it?

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by boxster

The ims solution would be the best option for sure,but I'm thinking it will be about another year till ill be able to get hold of it where I live!
The question I asked before was,why do you "life" your bearings at such low milage/years since theyre so much better than the original bearings and many many cars are known to have gone beyond 100k miles on their original bearings? Will I still need to change my double row retrofit bearing in five or six years time,even if it has lets say 20k miles on it?

These are realistic periodic service recommendations. Unlike those who admit "they don't know" how long something will last that they may sell (but they sell it anyway as a lifetime part) the LN products have been truly developed. The lifespans that are stated came from the hourly ratings of the ball bearings, by the manufacturer, as well as what has been seen in practical applications.

No one (at LN) wants to set an expectation that ANY ball bearing will last forever, so from day one the components have had a service life, in years, and miles.

Yes, even if you put 500 miles on a bearing it can have too much time in service if it reaches the recommended service interval. Corrosive wear is real.

[boxster]

[QUOTE=Jake Raby;472877]These are realistic periodic service recommendations. Unlike those who admit "they don't know" how long something will last that they may sell (but they sell it anyway as a lifetime part) the LN products have been truly developed. The lifespans that are stated came from the hourly ratings of the ball bearings, by the manufacturer, as well as what has been seen in practical applications.

No one (at LN) wants to set an expectation that ANY ball bearing will last forever, so from day one the components have had a service life, in years, and miles.

Yes, even if you put 500 miles on a bearing it can have too much time in service if it reaches the recommended service interval. Corrosive wear is real.[/QUOTE

[boxster]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

These are realistic periodic service recommendations. Unlike those who admit "they don't know" how long something will last that they may sell (but they sell it anyway as a lifetime part) the LN products have been truly developed. The lifespans that are stated came from the hourly ratings of the ball bearings, by the manufacturer, as well as what has been seen in practical applications.

No one (at LN) wants to set an expectation that ANY ball bearing will last forever, so from day one the components have had a service life, in years, and miles.


Yes, even if you put 500 miles on a bearing it can have too much time in service if it reaches the recommended service interval. Corrosive wear is real.

Thanks for your reply.
Yep I agree, prevention is better than cure, and you cant expect something that works so hard to last forever. Surprisingly,Porsche did!

[boxster]

Can anyone tell me how many green plastic cam covers ill be needing to replace on a 5 chain boxster please?

[Jamesp]

You will need 4.

[Xpit77]

LN dual bearing installed by a top indy shop. Nuff said .