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Old 01-28-2015, 07:44 AM   #1
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Indy shop cost to install LN IMS Bearing?

Hi all:

I have a 1999 Boxster base with 60,000 km. I am the second owner- first owner dealer serviced with all maintenance up to date- original IMS bearing. I am trying to decide my plan of attack for the dreaded IMS issue. There are no visible leaks or any debris in the filter with the last oil change. One local Indy shop that I contacted suggested that immediate replacement is necessary- don't even start it- float it to his shop. He will not quote me a price for the replacement because of all of the unknown with a 16 year old car. His practice is to remove the engine and transmission and then separate them to get at the bearing. How many hours (average) should the bearing replacement take? I was also told that the Guardian has been discontinued....

Dave
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Old 01-29-2015, 08:00 AM   #2
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In order to replace your IMS bearing, only transmission needs to be removed. Engine stays in the car.
Boxsters are known for lots of issues, so if your engine has been well maintained and it's in good condition it's worth it to change it.
Labor shouldn't be more than $2000 USD (that's what we charge here in US) plus the bearing of your choice. If your engine has noises, leaks, etc... it most likely will fail anyway, so no point on spending $ on IMS.
Removing engine and transmission to replace IMS sounds expensive, maybe they haven't done this before, and could potentially mess things up.
Remember, proper installation is the most crucial step. If they don't do it right, you will end up with engine damage and costly repair.
We know a shop in Ontario called Hunter Motorsports. Give them a call and see if they can help you, we have worked with them in the past. Brent is the owner, so ask for him.
Hopefully this helps...Good luck!
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Old 01-29-2015, 08:14 AM   #3
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There is no need to remove the engine - just the trans.
I payed around $3400.00 which included: dble. row LN IMS, new clutch, new water pump, oil change & new coolant. They also vacuum tested the AOS which is still ok.

3000 t0 3500 seems about the normal cost.

Good luck.
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Old 01-29-2015, 08:33 AM   #4
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I've been quoted $1800 parts and labour + hst from a highly respected shop in Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario. Based on what your guy is saying - I would look around for another shop. Fearmongering is no way to run a business.

Oh, and the IMS is not dreaded. Remember - the odds are that nothing will ever go wrong with the it. Only affects MAYBE 5%. That being said, I still think its a worth while preventive maintenance thing to do.
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Old 01-29-2015, 08:52 AM   #5
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I paid $640 for the labor plus parts. My indie charged 8 hours labor. If they want to charge you more then 8 hours of labor they are either riping you off or don't know what they are doing. either way run. You may want to check out LN Engineering's website for a referral in your area.
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Old 01-29-2015, 09:49 AM   #6
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I got quoted $4,000 for the Flat6Inovation Direct Oil Feed retrofit kit. My quote was higher since I have a Tiptronic trans.

http://www.flat6innovations.com
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Old 01-29-2015, 10:30 AM   #7
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If somebody says he will pull engine and transmission to replace the IMS this guy in general doesn't know the Boxster watercooled engine. In my opion these are the guys who have worked on air cooled Porsche and VW engines.

There is also the possibility to check the timing of each camshaft with a Durametric, or PIWIS tool. So if there are any problems with the chain tensioners, chain length, or even with a IMS ball bearing that wlll break soon, you can diagnose that. But that doesn't work with any 986 engine, because the engine needs 2 camshaft sensors. 1999 engines should have 2 camshaft sensors.

About 8% of the engines fail by IMS problems. But that also means that 92% of the engines will run without any problems. So i personally would first inspect the stock ball bearing and than decide what to do. If the sealing is OK i think there is no need to replace it.

If your car needs a new clutch, it's a good idea to check IMS seal and ball bearing and rear crankshaft bearing. If not i would drive the car, do oil changes and check oil and filter and wouldn't worry too much.

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Old 01-29-2015, 11:42 AM   #8
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Why the flatbed it worry? Was there a noise or symptom that led you to believe that the car won't run for the few miles to a shop just as it has for its 60k+ miles? If there was, then by all means flatbed and don't turn it over. Critical to the success of any IMS replacement is making absolutely certain that there is no debris already floating around in the engine.

$4k is twice what I see people posting as labor costs. More common is ~$1k for a manual. More for a TIP as the whole engine/trans unit has to be removed and then replaced. Which might get you to $2k but certainly not $4k. What is his hourly labor rate?

And are you doing anything else while you are there? AOS, water pump, clutch, plugs/tubes/coil-packs, etc?
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Old 01-29-2015, 12:16 PM   #9
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Your 99 likely has the double row bearing, which has a failure rate of less than 1%. I have the same bearing and I'm not going to do anything until I have to replace the clutch.
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Old 01-29-2015, 12:19 PM   #10
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Mantis in Oakville was around $2200 plus tax etc. LN double row.
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Old 01-29-2015, 12:46 PM   #11
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The mileage is actually only about 40,000 or about 60,000 kms (I'm in Canada) . I drove her 900 miles from her former North Carolina home last August and she ran beautifully. The car is exceptionally clean and has been very well looked after. I called the Indy who services only Porsches, looking for advice about service strategy as the car is new to me. I was planning to drop by to meet the owner and have a look at his shop before i decided to have any work done there. I was a little surprised that his approach to the IMS replacement was to drop the engine. He wouldn't even give me a ballpark idea of the cost and listed all of the various potential issues that may need to be addressed while the engine was out. I will check out some other shops before make a decision. I'm not afraid to spend the money as I absolutely love the car and want to keep her for several years- I just don't want to be screwed. It is a summer weekend toy. I am inclined to just drive her until she needs a clutch and then do IMS, clutch and waterpump at the same time. I spoke to the original owner who had her for 15 years and then traded on a 2014 Boxster - he had never heard of the IMS issue. I have given it more thought in the 5 months that I have owned her than he gave in the last 15 years- ignorance is truly bliss!
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Old 01-29-2015, 12:50 PM   #12
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I have a 2000S with the dual row bearing. The previous owner replaced the clutch but did not replace the bearing, so the first thing I did when I bought it was have the ceramic bearing installed. Cost was either $1300 or $1350, I can't remember and included both labor and the bearing.
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Old 01-29-2015, 01:38 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikefocke View Post
Why the flatbed it worry? Was there a noise or symptom that led you to believe that the car won't run for the few miles to a shop just as it has for its 60k+ miles? If there was, then by all means flatbed and don't turn it over. Critical to the success of any IMS replacement is making absolutely certain that there is no debris already floating around in the engine.

$4k is twice what I see people posting as labor costs. More common is ~$1k for a manual. More for a TIP as the whole engine/trans unit has to be removed and then replaced. Which might get you to $2k but certainly not $4k. What is his hourly labor rate?

And are you doing anything else while you are there? AOS, water pump, clutch, plugs/tubes/coil-packs, etc?
How much does the Flat6Inovation DOF Retrofit kit cost?

Here is what he stated in email correspondence.

"Depends on which route you want to take. If you want to go with the standard
single row LN engineering bearing, (assuming replacing clutch and a few other
while in there items), it usually comes out in the $3000 range with the
tiptronic due to the extra labor of the tiptronic. If you want to go with the
IMS solution which utilizes an oil fed bushing system to replace the bearing,
that runs about $4000."
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Old 01-29-2015, 01:51 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRAM36 View Post
How much does the Flat6Inovation DOF Retrofit kit cost?

Here is what he stated in email correspondence.

"Depends on which route you want to take. If you want to go with the standard
single row LN engineering bearing, (assuming replacing clutch and a few other
while in there items), it usually comes out in the $3000 range with the
tiptronic due to the extra labor of the tiptronic. If you want to go with the
IMS solution which utilizes an oil fed bushing system to replace the bearing,
that runs about $4000."
IMS replacement parts alone for an IMS Solution refit are approaching $2k, without labor. $4K to do one on a Tip is a fair price.
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Old 01-29-2015, 02:02 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by JFP in PA View Post
IMS replacement parts alone for an IMS Solution refit are approaching $2k, without labor. $4K to do one on a Tip is a fair price.
Thanks for the info JFP.

I have another question. The DOF refit system, can it me moved to another engine? My car has 115k miles on it. I'm not going to ever sell this car. So when this motor gives out I'll put another motor in it. If the DOF refit can be moved to the replacement motor I would consider having it done now. If it can't, I'll just wait til this engine gives up.
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Old 01-29-2015, 02:23 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by KRAM36 View Post
Thanks for the info JFP.

I have another question. The DOF refit system, can it me moved to another engine? My car has 115k miles on it. I'm not going to ever sell this car. So when this motor gives out I'll put another motor in it. If the DOF refit can be moved to the replacement motor I would consider having it done now. If it can't, I'll just wait til this engine gives up.
First of all, stop referring to it as a DOF, that is a different product and I believe copyrighted name for that system. The oil fed LN system is the IMS Solution.

I really do not have answer for your question of moving an IMS Solution retrofit. I know you cannot move any of the LN ceramic bearings as the extraction process damages the bearing. Perhaps that question would best be directed at Jake Raby, but my hunch would be no.
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Old 01-29-2015, 02:34 PM   #17
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I have a 2001S, is there a way to know if I have the single row or double row bearing without removing it?
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Old 01-29-2015, 02:45 PM   #18
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I have a 2001S, is there a way to know if I have the single row or double row bearing without removing it?
Not really, 2000-2001 was transitional period and the engine's came both ways. Unfortunately, only visual inspection has proven reliable for these cars.
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Old 01-29-2015, 02:56 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by pilut2 View Post
.
One local Indy shop that I contacted suggested that immediate replacement is necessary- don't even start it- float it to his shop.
That brings back memories......
Coincidentally I went to the same shop as pilut2 and went through the same spiel.

I've heard good things about Mantis as well, and also the guy in Stoney Creek Ontario, can remember the name right now.
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Old 01-29-2015, 03:18 PM   #20
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Not really, 2000-2001 was transitional period and the engine's came both ways. Unfortunately, only visual inspection has proven reliable for these cars.
Ok, thanks for the quick reply.
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