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Old 09-26-2005, 09:13 PM   #1
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satellite radio

So, I'm a big baseball fan and I picked up one of the next gen XM portable radios so I can get all the games. It gets moderate-poor reception as is, but hooking it up to the magnetic anntenna really boosts the signal. I installed it on the back of my PT Cruiser and just wrapped it through the door seems. Has anyone used satellite radio(s) on a boxster? If so, where did you put the antenna and where did you feed the wiring?

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Old 09-27-2005, 10:16 AM   #2
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I put the antenna on the dash next to the a-pillar, passenger side.
Reception is ok. I get lost signal going under highway overpass and on cloudy overcast days its not very good.

Sirius (I got the bracket at BestBuy $20) and drilled it onto the inside of the spare
cubby hole. The tuner and orange displays matches my boxster shifter and dash perfectly!
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Old 09-27-2005, 10:24 AM   #3
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Thanks for your post -- do you happen to have a pic of the antenna (by the a-pillar)? Or is it already in the picture and I just don't see it?
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Old 09-28-2005, 06:58 AM   #4
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The antenna is the small mouse looking thing in this pic.
probably why my reception isn't terrific. I'll have to look for a stronger antenna
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Old 09-28-2005, 08:29 AM   #5
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Ah.. I see it. I have a small magnetic mouse antenna with my XM. I was able to mount it on the back roof of my PT Crusier and the reception is very good. I think I'll have to play around with it when my Box arrives and see what I get. Thanks again for posting the pic. I've wondered why Porsche hasn't made any offers of have satellite radios. I wonder if they feel that the antennas would mar the lines of their cars...? I dunno.
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Old 09-28-2005, 08:46 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfos
... I've wondered why Porsche hasn't made any offers of have satellite radios. I wonder if they feel that the antennas would mar the lines of their cars...? I dunno.
Hi,

I suspect that Porsche is like most of the rest of the World, which hasn't readily accepted Satellite Radio.

To date, companies like Sirius and XM have fallen tremendously short of their forecasts of service subscribers.

There have been some technical challenges - it requires line-of-sight - so no good in tunnels, some bridges and overpasses or in some instances, between tall buildings. And it can have poor reception in the Rain or Snow or even Solar Flare events.

Also, people just don't seem to want to get another Cable Bill for their Car radios. This has caused the once hailed Commercial-Free medium to start adding some commercial content just to meet costs (which isn't happening - the companies are losing Millions).

Add to this that download capable mediums, such as Ipod have greatly impacted the Satellite Radio preferred demographic.

Personally, I wouldn't invest heavily in Satellite Radio. I suspect it's going to end up being one of those good ideas which never really caught on.

Happy Motoring!...Jim'99

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Old 09-28-2005, 01:11 PM   #7
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MNB,

Interesting reply. Since I installed the mouse-like antenna on the back of my other car, reception has been quite good. You do make a point about many car companies taking the wait-n-see approach and that may well be valid. Though my downtown doesn't have many tall buildings, I do live in the mountains and there are times I lose reception. Of course, I just take the unit inside and play everything through the stereo where reception is always on the mark. The second gen XM radios also allow for recording up to 5 h of programming. Sure, Ipods are quite functional and cute, but satellite radios do offer things Ipods cannot. Ipods cannot broadcast every baseball game from the home stadiums (XM) nor can they broadcast football or Howard Stern (Sirius). Ipods do not have recordings of concerts or sit-downs with the band -- XM recently sat down with the members of Jethro Tull and dissected each song off Aqualung followed by a live performance. Also, correct me I am wrong, but unless there is another "free" Napster, you have to pay for your downloaded songs (or buy cds and download them). WHat makes you think that these people that object to paying a fee for satellite don't object to a fee for downloading?

XM also has sit down interviews with comedians and as well as live performances. Unfortunately, there is some commercials with the un-censored comedian channel, but it's still much shorter than "regular" radio, but tell me... how many channels does your ipod have?

As for the billing, cost and investing heavily: If I am going to buy a Porsche, I certainly have $200 to kick around. Subscription was about $150 up front, I don't get any bills, plus I get to hear every baseball game the Yankees play, plus 150 other stations ranging from news, comedy, weather yada yada yada. So, on a personal level, I think the billing point is moot.

As for car companies "investing" heavily... Let's think about this. Porsche mats were $110. For a piece of carpet that says Porsche? Porsche luggage can go for over $500 for an overnight bag. The windstop is over $300. Paint jobs are over $1200. Heck, you can get leather on your dash board, too! I think it's an absurb argument that car companies really have to "invest" heavily. Satellite radio may be the latest "dvd". Sure, maybe it'll be betamax or lazer disk, but the car company won't care. Show me where they would lose money on having an over-priced option? Make it an extra and if people want it, they can order it. As for the mass market cars, many already have them anyway and if people don't want them, they don't pay for them or ask for a rebate. Seriously, how many people need a GPS? Maybe, I'm different but I don't go on cross country jaunts nor does my city constantly change. GPS, in my eyes, is for more a luxury than a simple satellite radio antenna and subscription. I mean, you still have to continually order the dvds to keep your GPS current, right? Think of that bill...
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Old 09-28-2005, 02:24 PM   #8
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Porsche are really behind the times in this department.

The major car makes have entered into big deals with XM or Sirius to have the cars equiped with Sattelite radio.
Porsche also seem to show no interest in joining the many other car companies that are intergrating the Ipod into their stereos.

But once you go Satellite there is NO turning back. You really appreciate how much payola-same-old-music and non-stop stupid advertising you are subjected to. My favorite Sirius stations are completely non-existent on free radio.
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Old 09-28-2005, 02:45 PM   #9
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Though I subscribe to XM, I agree -- there is no turning back. As for Porsche being behind the times... we'll maybe they are. Then again, to my knowledge, I've never seen a Porsche that had wipers on their headlights like ALL the older luxury vehicles. Wipers on headlights? Now THAT is something the car makers should NOT have invested in.
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Old 09-28-2005, 03:21 PM   #10
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@cfos,

Hi,

I am making no value judgement whatever re. satellite radio. I think the technology is great. Whatever shortcomings it currently possesses, I'm sure can be dealt with sometime in the future. If it stays alive, I'm sure it'll get better.

What I am saying is that the Marketplace has yet to embrace it. People, whether it's from ignorance, preference for another music medium, economics, or whatever are simply not buying it. I don't have it and am not interested in getting it. When I drive my Porsche, it's usually with no radio at all. When I do listen to something, it's about 99% CDs.

In 2002, Sirius forecast that that they would be meeting cashflow requirements in the 2nd Qtr. of 2003 with 6 million subscibers by the close of 2003. Howard Stern was supposed to bring millions of Loyal followers to Satellite Radio, but apparently they didn't get the word, because few followed.

According to their latest quarterly earnings report released 9/7/05, Sirius listed a $117million Loss for the Qtr., a revised date for reaching positive cashflow to the 4th Qtr. of 2007 and a forecast subcription of 3 million (up from 2.1 million) in 2006. Those are simply not very encouraging numbers or forecasts. (I didn't bother to research XM, but I believe it safe to say that their performance mirrors that of Sirius to a great extent.

The entire system is currently relying on investors who have yet to see a return. If their patience wanes, or if a better investment pops up in the meantime, they dump their stock, meaning Sirius folds up the tent, Game Over.

I know it's attractive to many people. And, I realize these people have become loyal, even avid users. Especially those with special interests such as Sports Fans, or those who regularly drive long distance (to avoid Station Surfing). But apparently, there aren't yet enough of these users to make the whole thing profitable. And, without Profit, you don't have Satellite Radio.

Perhaps as more young people come along, who better embrace the technology, things will improve. If they can last that long.

All new technologies have a birthing period. But, some don't survive beyond it and to date, Satellite Radio just hasn't set the world on fire and the future isn't very clear.

So far as Dealer Options, there are many common ones which don't appear on Porsche's Options List. Porsche doesn't want to offer them, they want to sell them. If, in their opinion (backed by surveys, focus groups, marketing trends and the like) something isn't going to sell, it's unlikely you're gonna see it make the list. So far as other manufacturers carrying them, well for one thing, they are in much greater competition for Market Share than Porsche. Also, their target demographic is both larger and much more broad. For them, it may make sense. It's more than just you wanting it which counts, it has to be that most want it.

I totally agree with you on the GPS thing. I suspect that many buyers don't even use it on a regular basis. But, I equally suspect that it's got the Bling Factor working in it's favor whereas Satellite Radio is seen as just another radio to most buyers (and one you have to pay for, whatever the amount, it's still an added cost for something people are used to getting for free).

One thing is probably true, and that is if Satellite Radio were all the rage, it's a good bet that Porsche would have it in thier lineup, there'd be too much lost profit if it weren't.

But, again, as I've said, we'll have to wait and see what the future brings.

Happy Motoring!...Jim'99
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Old 09-28-2005, 04:12 PM   #11
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Sprint PCS is now offering access to Sirius for about $7/mo. So I suppose if you have a Bluetooth-enabled car and Bluetooth-enabled Sprint cell phone with Sirius access, you could go that route.

Although it would be silly.
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Old 09-28-2005, 07:39 PM   #12
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Sirius will eventually be taken over by XM. The market is too fragile for both (the programing seems identical) and the investors will make sure Sirius continues in some form. could be good news if you are holding Sirius stock.
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Old 09-29-2005, 06:34 AM   #13
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This morning XM announced it's 5,000,000 subscriber. XM also reports that GM offers XM in 42 vehicles and that will increase to 50. Interstingly, a shop in the Bronx is selling fake satellite antennas (much like the old fake cell phone antennas. It's also hard to not see the high end BMW, Audi and VWs and Nissans without a satellite antenna suggesting that the marketplace IS accepting satellite radio.

Now it just may be MY opinion, but I still argue that the investment for satellite is small. Car companies are catching on because they want to provide the most options, especially on their high end cars. You can preach that they haven't met expectations, they have debt, etc., but what company doesn't? According to the various forums, Porsche was even getting into financial straits prior to the release of the Boxster. How about Delta airlines? Sure, not all companies make it out and still turn a profit, but we'll see, like you stated, what the future holds. As for technology, it will likely improve and become smaller. Just pick up a Sunday paper and flip through a Best Buy or Circuit City flyer. I'll guarntee that there are a few radios that are either XM or Sirius compatible. I think satellite is hear to stay... Oh wait... what is this I spy with my eye...

If you goto the "Build your Porsche" section and click on the Cayenne (Turbo), there is an option for XM or sirius ($990). Huh. I guess Porsche ALREADY jumped on the bandwagen too. So, I reiterate... it's a shame it's not an option on the Boxster.

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Old 09-29-2005, 07:00 AM   #14
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The XM Radio option in the Cayenne is not just going to cost you $990...you also have to select the PCM option...and that costs $3,275-$3,070 more!!!!
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Old 09-29-2005, 07:19 AM   #15
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Hi,,

I don't want to get into Flame Wars over this issue. But, consider these quotes directly from XM Radio Holdings, Inc. from an SEC required filing of a FORM 8K (which is essentially a summary of released Quarterly Earnings) filed with the SEC on 8/05/05:

"As of June 30, 2005, we had incurred capital expenditures of $1.4 billion and cumulative net losses approximating $2.4 billion from our inception through June 30, 2005 (this equates to a loss of $480/subscriber). We expect our cumulative net losses and negative cash flow to grow as we make payments under our various distribution contracts, incur marketing and subscriber acquisition costs and make interest payments on our outstanding indebtedness. If we are unable ultimately to generate sufficient revenues to become profitable and have positive cash flow, demand for our service may be insufficient for us to become profitable."

and

"We cannot estimate with any certainty the potential consumer demand for such a service or the degree to which we will meet that demand. Among other things, continuing and increased consumer acceptance of XM Radio will depend upon:

whether we obtain, produce and market high quality programming consistent with consumers' tastes;

the willingness of consumers, on a mass-market basis, to pay subscription fees to obtain radio service;

the cost and availability of XM radios; and

the marketing and pricing strategies that we employ and that are employed by our competitors.

If demand for our service does not develop and increase as expected, we may not be able to generate enough revenues to generate positive cash flow or become profitable."


and

"Our inability to retain customers, including those who purchase or lease vehicles that include a subscription to our service, could adversely affect our financial performance.

We cannot predict how successful we will be at retaining customers who purchase or lease vehicles that include a subscription to our service as part of the promotion of our product. Currently, we retain approximately 60% of the customers who receive a promotional subscription as part of the purchase or lease of a new vehicle, but that percentage does vary over time and the amount of data on the percentage is limited. We do not know if the percentage will change as the number of customers with promotional subscriptions increases.

We experience subscriber turnover, or churn, with respect to our customers as well. Because we have been in commercial operations for a relatively short period of time, we cannot predict the amount of churn we will experience over the longer term.

Our inability to retain customers who purchase or lease new vehicles with our service beyond the promotional period and subscriber turnover could adversely affect our financial performance and results of operations.

Higher than expected subscriber acquisition costs could adversely affect our financial performance.

We are still spending substantial funds on advertising and marketing and in transactions with car and radio manufacturers and other parties to obtain or as part of the expense of attracting new subscribers. Our ability to achieve cash flow breakeven within the expected timeframe depends on our ability to continue to maintain or lower these costs. If the costs of attracting new subscribers or incentivizing other parties are greater than expected through higher per-unit costs or higher than anticipated subscriber growth volume, our financial performance and results of operations could be adversely affected.

Large payment obligations under our distribution agreement with General Motors and other agreements may prevent us from becoming profitable or from achieving profitability in a timely manner."


and

"Failure to timely replace our existing satellites could damage our business.

We have been disclosing since the third quarter of 2001 a progressive degradation problem with the solar array output power of Boeing 702 class satellites, including both XM-1 and XM-2. Based on the consistency of the degradation trends and continuing analyses by BSS and us, our management adjusted the estimated useful lives of our in-orbit satellites, with effect from September 2002, to the period running through first quarter 2008 (approximately 6.75 years from launch). We and the manufacturer are continuing to watch the progression of the situation, including data from a satellite that has been in orbit longer than either of our two satellites by approximately 15 and 17 months, respectively. With this advance visibility of performance levels, we launched our XM-3 satellite in February 2005. XM-3 was placed into one of our orbital slots and beginning in April 2005 is being used to transmit the XM service. XM-1 was collocated with XM-2 in the other orbital slot (which allows partial use of XM-1 and XM-2 through the first quarter of 2008). With this plan, the ongoing construction of an additional satellite (XM-4) and contractual arrangements in place to provide XM-4 launch services, we believe we will be able to launch XM-4 prior to the time the solar array power problem might cause the broadcast signal strength to fall below minimum acceptable levels. We have entered into a contract to construct a spare satellite (XM-5) to be completed by the end of 2007 for use as a ground spare or to be available for launch in the event there is a launch or early operations failure of XM-4. However, we cannot assure you that such actions will allow us to maintain adequate broadcast signal strength, particularly in the event of a launch or operational failure of either XM-4 or XM-5. If either XM-1, XM-2, or XM-3 were to fail or suffer unanticipated additional performance degradation prematurely, or if there was a launch or operational failure of either XM-4 or XM-5, it likely would affect the quality of our service, and might interrupt the continuation of our service and harm our business. This harm would continue until we successfully launched and operated one or more additional satellites.
A number of other factors could decrease the useful lives of our satellites, including:

defects in construction;

loss of on board station-keeping system;

failure of satellite components that are not protected by back-up units;

electrostatic storms; and

collisions with other objects in space.

In addition, our network of terrestrial repeaters communicates principally with one satellite. If the satellite communicating with the repeater network fails unexpectedly, we would have to repoint all the repeaters to communicate with the other satellite. This would result in a degradation of service that could last several days and could harm our business. Potential losses may not be covered by insurance."


and

"Digital radio broadcast services have been expanding, and an increasing number of radio stations in the U.S. have begun digital broadcasting or are in the process of converting to digital broadcasting. The technology permits broadcasters to transmit as many as five stations per frequency. To the extent that traditional AM/FM radio stations adopt digital transmission technology such as that offered by iBiquity and to the extent such technology allows signal quality that rivals our own, any competitive advantage that we enjoy over traditional radio because of our digital signal would be lessened.

Internet radio broadcasts have no geographic limitations and can provide listeners with radio programming from around the country and the world. According to an Arbitron study, approximately 20 million Americans listened to internet radio each week in January 2005. We expect that improvements from higher bandwidths, faster modems and wider programming selection will make Internet radio increasingly competitive, in particular with our new XM internet service.

The Apple iPod, a portable digital music player that stores up to 10,000 songs, allows users to download and purchase music through Apple's iTunes Music Store, which features over 1 million songs and 8,000 audio books. Apple has disclosed that it sold over 4.4 million iPods during its fiscal 2004 year. The iPod is also compatible with certain car stereos and various home speaker systems. Our recently introduced XM2go portable satellite radio player, Samsung/XM digital audio player and XM + Napster online service will compete with the iPod and other downloading technology and devices.

We may need additional funding for our business plan and additional financing might not be available.

Although we believe we have sufficient cash and credit facilities available to fund our operations through the date on which we expect our business to begin generating positive cash flow, we may need additional financing due to future developments or changes in our business plan. In addition, our actual funding requirements could vary materially from our current estimates. If additional financing is needed, we may not be able to raise sufficient funds on favorable terms or at all. If we fail to obtain any necessary financing on a timely basis, a number of adverse effects could occur. We could default on our commitments to creditors or others and may have to seek a purchaser for our business or assets."


We're trying to predict the future. But this Data which must be filed with the SEC must be more factual than any public relations Press Release. Factual inaccuracies in these filings can be criminal offenses for the Company's Operators and Directors. To me, this just doesn't present the rosey picture you're trying to paint. Obviously, there are two very different outlooks here making any such prediction even more difficult.

You may well be right in the end, but then again, it appears that so could I.

Happy Motoring!...Jim'99
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Old 09-29-2005, 09:57 AM   #16
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I'm not looking for a flame wars either, I just happen to disagree with your argument. As for citing materials and reports. If you look hard enough, you can find data to argue any point/hypothesis. Citing a report by the SEC may be valid, but it is still an appeal to authority. If I were to cite FEMA reports from the recent hurricanes in the South, would you believe all they said...? How about if it came from the President?

Laws changes just as authority. I started this post with a question regarding satellite radios and if people had installed them in Boxsters and if so, where. I did openly wonder about whether Porsche would opt for it and wondered why they hadn't offered it. I disagree with your argument and in fact was mistaken in that Porsche does offer it on the Cayenne. I did get the price quote wrong, nonetheless it is offered.

Personally, I don't care about the financial or government reports. As I said in another post, I currently subscribe, as do 4,999,999 others, to XM. Last time I checked, neither of us worked for Porsche and are not entitled to speak on their behalf as to why they do/don't offer it. We can theorize, but it really is moot.(unless you own stock) And even if satellite goes under next year, what is the lost? $300? $400? It's the experience that draws the value. Heck, if we want to go down this road, let's talk about how there won't be any gas left to run in our porsches in 40 or so years. So, rather than spend 10 or so minutes trying to find a report from an "authority" on whether gas will run out in 40 years to refute this post, let people that have satellite radios reply and answer the questions as to where they install their antennas and leave us to our faultering businesses. We can bring this back up in 10 or so years, k? Who knows, maybe next year Porsche will offer wiper blades on their headlights.
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Old 09-29-2005, 10:18 AM   #17
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I did get the price quote wrong, nonetheless it is offered.
Hey CFOS, please don't misunderstand me. I was not intending to correct you. In fact, you have the correct price for the option. I just pointed out that other options are required to have the satellite radio choice.
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Old 09-29-2005, 11:45 AM   #18
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S'ok. I didn't mean anything about your comment, only I made a mistake in my estimate. My point was that Porsche, among many other car manufacturers have opted to include satellite radio in, at least, some of their models. I'm sorry if you thought I was upset -- I'm not at all.
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Old 09-29-2005, 11:56 AM   #19
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$900 for Satellite Radio in a Cayenne?
That's freakin ridiculous. Its already too expensive as it is. $12 is no biggie but
dropping $200 just to get started doesn't make it too apetizing. They have to find a way to get third parties to susbsidize the cost of the tuner, maybe running banner adds during the songs. More sophisticated displays like cell phones are introducing would really help in the ad department. Subsribers alone aren't going to make the bottom line any better.

A Porsche channel would very cool. I'll send Sirius an email.

If they ever got rid of Satellite radio 7 million people would burn down the country.
FM radio sucks!!!! CD's are nice but that's leads to people listening to the same dated music. For me listening to music I've never heard before is the big draw.

p.s. Howard Stern's channel ID is already up. Channels 100 and 101
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Old 09-29-2005, 12:00 PM   #20
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I agree that the option is pricey, although I'm not in a situation where I will spend $80- 90k on an SUV, even IF it is a Porsche. I figure that the person who can spend that kind of money may not see another $1k or $4k as much money.

I also agree that millions of people would be upset at the loss of satellite radio. I believe it is catching on, but we just have to wait. Personally, I'd like to see a monopoly -- lik PL suggests -- one buying out the other. That way we could have all sports and howard stern.

I had Stern back on the east coast (WNBC) and for a while when I lived in NOLA. I think his show is hilarious.

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