Go Back   986 Forum - for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners > Porsche Boxster & Cayman Forums > Performance and Technical chat

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-08-2012, 04:46 PM   #1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10
Clutch - RMS/IMS

I am having a new clutch and flywheel put into my 01 S at the Porsche dealership. When I talked to the front desk service manager about having the RMS replaced, he said good idea. But when I asked about the IMS bearing. He said that they don't often do that when the clutch goes unless there's something wrong with it. I've been reading about the IMS and a replacement from LN Engineering and have seen some recommendations to do it if you have to replace the clutch....

Seems as though I'm getting conflicting advice.

Anyone had it done one way or the other?
Thanks --
MaizeNBlueBoxster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2012, 05:54 PM   #2
Registered User
 
landrovered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Madison, Georgia
Posts: 1,012
Garage
Search and you will find all the information you need to bolster your underlying prejudice on the matter. If deep inside you want to replace it then you will find many who agree and if you want to let it be then you will find many who agree with that too.

A few things most agree on...

It makes sense to have it done when you do the clutch.

It is a waste of money if your car has 100k miles on it.
__________________
2001 Boxster S 3.6L, Zeintop
"Calling upon my years of experience, I froze at the controls." - Stirling Moss
landrovered is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2012, 11:35 AM   #3
Registered User
 
ryanwise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tampa
Posts: 50
Send a message via AIM to ryanwise
My 01 Boxster S has 62K on it. No leaks... nothing in the filter.BUT............I'm the 2nd owner and have read where the clutch's are generally done at 60K and all the labor to get to the IMS bearing and the RMS is already in the labor for the clutch...so for piece of mind and practicality, I'm having the L&N bearing put in. Undoubtedly will help the resale down the road also.
ryanwise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2012, 02:52 PM   #4
Registered User
 
landrovered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Madison, Georgia
Posts: 1,012
Garage
There is no magic mileage number where you should replace the clutch, you should replace the clutch when it slips. Replacing it before that is just a waste of money. Also I have not seen where an IMS upgrade has increased the value of the car in any way. Perhaps if you sell to an enthusiast it might help attract a buyer but Joe Consumer does not know and does not care.

I am not faulting you for the fact that you are planning to do an IMS when you do the clutch. That is a good thing I just wouldn't do it till the clutch is gone and don't expect anyone else to value it as much as you do.
__________________
2001 Boxster S 3.6L, Zeintop
"Calling upon my years of experience, I froze at the controls." - Stirling Moss
landrovered is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2012, 06:24 PM   #5
Registered User
 
ryanwise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tampa
Posts: 50
Send a message via AIM to ryanwise
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I have never subscribed to the "don't fix it till its broke" philosophy. Every Porsche I have owned and sold have been sold to Porsche Club members at the upper end of the price graph because of the maintenance that had been done to the car. We all know that every Porsche comes with a unique set of issues, when those issues are addressed, my personal experience is that people will pay you for that. Of the 5 "stickies" on this forum 2 are about the IMS bearing and RMS failure. Every article in Excellence or Panarama on the 986 is never complete without a caution about the RMS or IMS bearing issue. To infer that the people out there buying used Porsches are buying them blind with no research when we live in the information age of the internet is just not realistic. On the clutch, if you wait until it "slips" you will have worn the clutch disk down thru the rivets and destroyed the Dual Mass Flywheel..............add another $800-$1000 to the clutch job. Just happened to a fellow PCA member with a 2002 S with 57K miles. He developed a small oil leak and thought it was just the RMS....which it was......but when they got in there they found the clutch disc had destroyed the fluwheel and ....get this.....they took out the IMS bearing which wasn't leaking......but there were 2 bearing balls that were oval shaped and causing the earing to ratchet. Just a matter of time before the bearing would have failed. Every time I get in this car, I think about the IMS bearing and the rear main seal. I know I will need a clutch at some point of time , so why not address the issue now and if I have caught it before the rivets hit the flywheel, the $1600 that I will spend will give me the new bearing, a new cluth, a new RMS and most important......piece of mind. I will also assure you I will recover that cost when I sell this car one day because there are plenty of folks out there like me who will pay for maintenance and piece of mind.
Sorry for the length of the answer......but again we will agree to disagree.
ryanwise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 03:18 AM   #6
Registered User
 
landrovered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Madison, Georgia
Posts: 1,012
Garage
Ok...so What is the correct mileage for clutch replacement and how much does the IMS retrofit add to the value of a used boxster?
__________________
2001 Boxster S 3.6L, Zeintop
"Calling upon my years of experience, I froze at the controls." - Stirling Moss
landrovered is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 03:41 AM   #7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 5,095
Using PPI data, apparently quite a bit. Astute buyers are willing to pay more (how much varies with the car) for a car that has had the IMS retrofit and a recent clutch replacement; if you think about it, a retrofitted car with a new clutch just saved you $2-3K out of pocket, so it does have residual value at sale...............
__________________
Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
JFP in PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 06:03 AM   #8
Registered User
 
landrovered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Madison, Georgia
Posts: 1,012
Garage
My car had $21,000 in work done to it by Autometrics, a very reputable shop, it resulted in $6k in premium on the price and that was only because it was a 3.6 conversion. If it had been a 3.2 it would have brought perhaps $1500 in premium. (incedently when I met the owner of Autometrics at Petit Le Mans, I asked why they had not done the IMS upgrade while doing all of that other work and he simply said that they checked the IMS and it was fine. This is a guy who preps and runs ALMS, GrandAm and Cup cars for a living) so while I totally agree in preventative maintenance and also feel that the IMS retrofit is worthwhile, I don't promote the notion that anyone outside the Porsche forums will give a hoot. We tend to overvalue our cars because we are passionate about them. Also I don't like wives tales and made up service intervals that require $7k worth of tinkering on order to get the enthusiast seal of approval. Servic intervals are relative to the usage of the car and anything else is hype.
__________________
2001 Boxster S 3.6L, Zeintop
"Calling upon my years of experience, I froze at the controls." - Stirling Moss
landrovered is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 07:59 AM   #9
Registered User
 
ryanwise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tampa
Posts: 50
Send a message via AIM to ryanwise
I think we all know there is no "recommended" mileage for a clutch....c'mon. Wear depends on how the car was driven...city vs. highway etc. For those of us 986 owners who have bought them pre-owned, the clutch wear is anybodys guess. I do see a number of folks on this forum who are replacing clutch's between 60K and 70K..so for me...its now, at 62K with the hopes of saving the extra $1000 for a Dual Mass flywheel. For you? when it slips. But your going to buy a flywheel. With the IMS bearing right there...an item that randomly fails with catastrophic results, why not change that also? As far as the premium for an IMS bearing upgrade? I think JFP answered it correctly. The value of the upgrade depends on the buyer. For me, I would have paid $1500 more for this 60K mile car that had a new clutch with L&N bearing with RMS . You? I guess not. We will continue to agree to disagree.
ryanwise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 08:20 AM   #10
Registered User
 
landrovered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Madison, Georgia
Posts: 1,012
Garage
I am going to replace my gearbox due to 2nd gear issues and will do the clutch and IMS at the same time as, I said I believe in preventative maintenance. If you perform a simple clutch test every now and then (third gear test) and you monitor the pedal then it is possible to judge the state of you clutch without grinding it into metal dust. I was not suggesting you drive the car until the thing is slipping in regular use.
__________________
2001 Boxster S 3.6L, Zeintop
"Calling upon my years of experience, I froze at the controls." - Stirling Moss
landrovered is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 12:02 PM   #11
recycledsixtie
 
recycledsixtie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Edmonton Canada
Posts: 824
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by landrovered View Post
I am going to replace my gearbox due to 2nd gear issues and will do the clutch and IMS at the same time as, I said I believe in preventative maintenance. If you perform a simple clutch test every now and then (third gear test) and you monitor the pedal then it is possible to judge the state of you clutch without grinding it into metal dust. I was not suggesting you drive the car until the thing is slipping in regular use.
What do you do for the third gear test of the clutch to see what condition it is in ?Just what is involved? I suspect that my clutch is going(rubbery smell at the engine vents + leaky bell housing/rear of engine(oil present). Any comments re. these symptoms please?
recycledsixtie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 12:54 PM   #12
Registered User
 
landrovered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Madison, Georgia
Posts: 1,012
Garage
Third gear clutch test: With the parking brake on, disengage the clutch. Shift the transmission into third gear, and increase the engine speed to about 2000rpm. Slowly release the clutch pedal until the clutch engages. The engine should stall immediately. If the engine does not stall immediately then your clutch is slipping.

Between the smell and oil dripping from the rear of your engine this is not a happy sign. You should have your rear main seal and IMS checked, and clutch replaced. It sounds like you are a perfect candidate for the above mentioned 62k mile service.
__________________
2001 Boxster S 3.6L, Zeintop
"Calling upon my years of experience, I froze at the controls." - Stirling Moss
landrovered is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2012, 09:27 AM   #13
recycledsixtie
 
recycledsixtie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Edmonton Canada
Posts: 824
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by landrovered View Post
Third gear clutch test: With the parking brake on, disengage the clutch. Shift the transmission into third gear, and increase the engine speed to about 2000rpm. Slowly release the clutch pedal until the clutch engages. The engine should stall immediately. If the engine does not stall immediately then your clutch is slipping.

Between the smell and oil dripping from the rear of your engine this is not a happy sign. You should have your rear main seal and IMS checked, and clutch replaced. It sounds like you are a perfect candidate for the above mentioned 62k mile service.
I did the third gear clutch test and the motor stalled. There is no oil on the garage floor so I cant really justify a teardown/rms/clutch job yet. I have the ims guardian so I am going to keep trucking like there is nothing wrong and enjoy it. Day at a time and I thank u for the advice.
recycledsixtie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
clutch , ims , ln engineering , rms


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page