Engine noise '06 Boxster S

"How much would you like? we have been collecting UoA's for almost 10 years now....... Mobil 1 started going to Hell when Exxon bought them in 1989. They have been consistently reformulating Mobil 1 products into lesser performers, some even losing all their ACEA ratings in the process. The current version of 0W-40 took several attempts before it regained any ACEA ratings, and then only just. Mobil 1 once was a great product; unfortunately it no longer is."

Again you site nothing but your RED opinion. Repeating the same thing over again does not change it from opinion to fact.

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by pboxstercar

"How much would you like? we have been collecting UoA's for almost 10 years now....... Mobil 1 started going to Hell when Exxon bought them in 1989. They have been consistently reformulating Mobil 1 products into lesser performers, some even losing all their ACEA ratings in the process. The current version of 0W-40 took several attempts before it regained any ACEA ratings, and then only just. Mobil 1 once was a great product; unfortunately it no longer is."

Again you site nothing but your RED opinion. Repeating the same thing over again does not change it from opinion to fact.

Anyone wondering why I NEVER make an oil recommendation can read this debate and understand my reasoning.

My direct experience with the understanding, development and modification of the M96 engine has proven to me that JFP's statements are real. I have been substantiating similar findings since 2006. LN Engineering and I have spent well over 6 figures on sourcing oils, carrying out UOA and collecting data.

I did that for the benefit of my engine program, not to debate keyboard to keyboard with those who have never touched the internals of an M96 engine with a wrench.

Last week during "M96 101" we got off on a small oil debate and I KILLED the topic in it's tracks.. Part of the course rules was no one asks me for an oil recommendation!

[mikefocke]

Experience to understand.

So do your own Used Oil Analysis and form your own conclusion.

And in the many "oil" threads, why is it we don't see a Mobil 1 supporter citing his figures to "prove" that JFP and Charles and Jake are wrong. Most everyone I've ever seen posting their figures on the subject comes to the same conclusion.

Why has Porsche quietly changed their miles between oil changes recommendation? Wouldn't be because the effectiveness of the oil they recommend isn't as good as they thought, would it?

[Jake Raby]

The fewer miles between services the more oil is sold, and the more service is needed... Don't get me wrong, I mandate 5K mile services on my engines and believe greatly in keeping the contaminated oil out of these engines.

BUT not every selection that is made by companies is made because brand XXX is the best, in some instances it only means that someone got paid under the table to make product XXX applicable to of a certain manufacturers engines.

I personally know professional race teams who run a Mobil 1 decal on their car but you won't find that oil in their engine..

If anyone thinks that recommendations are only made for the sole benefit of the car/ engine they are sorely mistaken.

When new engines come from Porsche they are shipped with oil in them. I recently collected some of that oil when I dismantled an engine that we bought from Porsche to take apart and use for reference/ comparison. A oil analysis is being done on that oil now to see if it has the elemental levels that are generally associated with M1.

I'll close by stating that data can also be derived from simply observing the characteristics of an engine with different oils during start up and operation.

"At the end of the day, it is your car, so use what ever you want. Me, I’ll read and digest the available data and act accordingly……………."


Again - it's all opinion. What I hate about this board is too many people like you stating their opiniion as though it's fact. I's amazing that someone ask's a question and you answer the question (The oil is the problem) like your a Petroleum engineer. Are you?

[landrovered]

I'm going to get some popcorn and watch this one...

[Jake Raby]

Then the original poster should change his oil and see if the problem goes away. If it does that should quantify JFP's hypothesis that the oil is the problem.

Been there, done that and I am willing to make a wager that JFP is correct.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by pboxstercar

"At the end of the day, it is your car, so use what ever you want. Me, I’ll read and digest the available data and act accordingly……………."


Again - it's all opinion. What I hate about this board is too many people like you stating their opiniion as though it's fact. I's amazing that someone ask's a question and you answer the question (The oil is the problem) like your a Petroleum engineer. Are you?

As a matter fact, I am an engineer, I have been a life long member of the SAE, and spent the early part of my corporate career involved R&D on lubricants and lube additives..........not that it much matters. You continue to say “my opinion”; which is not correct. My statements are based upon over 35 years of owning, building and racing various Porsche’s, a database that reflects over a decade of collected new and used lubricant performance analysis, and a lot of years professionally repairing and maintaining client’s street and race Porsches. I am also a contributor to multiple websites where the relative merits of various oil’s and gear oil’s performance and technical characteristics are regularly discussed. So, no, it is not just my “opinion”……………..

[landrovered]

I was with you right up until the word "websites", gilding the lilly on that one.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by landrovered

I was with you right up until the word "websites", gilding the lilly on that one.

Not really, that point is easily enough confirmed……….

Instead of saying "The oil is the problem" the post should have stated "try changing to a different brand of oil - that may help".

Instead of supporting such postings as JFP who does not understand facts versus opinions you are doing a disservice to all that try and use this board. But that is my opinion - it is not a FACT.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by pboxstercar

"How much would you like? we have been collecting UoA's for almost 10 years now....... Mobil 1 started going to Hell when Exxon bought them in 1989. They have been consistently reformulating Mobil 1 products into lesser performers, some even losing all their ACEA ratings in the process. The current version of 0W-40 took several attempts before it regained any ACEA ratings, and then only just. Mobil 1 once was a great product; unfortunately it no longer is."

Again you site nothing but your RED opinion. Repeating the same thing over again does not change it from opinion to fact.

I have been posting UoA analysis on this and other sites for many years. And my shop is not the only critics of Mobil 1 products; you can find similar data on BITOIG, Renn Tech, PPBB and other performance oriented sites as well.

Mobil 1 products, and in particular, the 0W-40 "approved" grade, once were PaO based Group IV oils that demonstrated great UoA's (high retention of TBN values, the ability to stay in advertised grade under high heat or shear, etc.). Then they got reformulated into Group III+ oils, and then down to Group III (or worse). This one of the primary reasons the film strengths of Mobil 1 products have deteriorated so badly over time. If you want to learn more, you can run a search and find multiple posts on this subject over the years as it occurred, particularly on BITOG.

As for lab data (we offer interested clients full UoA’s as a regular part of our service), Mobil 1 grades that used to demonstrate TBN value retention of 75% after 6-7,000 miles now have only 25% retention after only 2,000 miles of street driving. Grade analysis has shown that the 0W-40 product can totally fall out of grade in as little as 1500 miles on the street. We have even seen this poor level of performance in Cadillac engines, so it is not just the M96, or hard use; it is the oil. Mobil 1 15W-50 used to be the mainstay of the air-cooled crowd, where the oil performance is even more critical to the engine, but the stuff on the shelf today is a shadow of what it used to be, and cannot even meet the essential ACEA ratings it used to hold. We used to use Mobil 1 products as a standard offering to our customers; we no longer use any Mobil 1 products, and will not use them if asked to.

Unfortunately, as Jake just noted, there is something about oil discussions amongst the Porsche crowd that is akin to talking about politics or religion; reams of statistically significant data collected over several years get dismissed as “opinion”………………

At the end of the day, it is your car, so use what ever you want. Me, I’ll read and digest the available data and act accordingly…………….