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Old 02-24-2010, 09:52 AM   #1
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Engine noise '06 Boxster S

Has anyone ever had this problem?

Background Info: I have a 2006 Boxster S with 13K miles. Never driven in the winter. Oil changed every time it went into storage in October.

Problem: Once or twice a summer, I get a noise when I start the car in the morning (not driven since the evening before). (Never happened when the engine was warm) The engine starts up and there is a noise coming from the engine that sounds like a chain rattling. It lasts less than a second. The engine runs fine and there is no smoke coming from the exhaust. It almost sounds like the timing chain is loose (that is, if Porsche uses a metal timing chain). When the car gets out of storage in late March I will take it in for its 4 year service and get Porsche's opinion but I am worried it might be serious.

Any help?

Randy
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Old 02-24-2010, 10:03 AM   #2
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If it goes away after a second it means that the oil has drained from the chain and starts running dry in the morning, and as soon as the oil pressure is up, it gets bathed in it and the noise is gone.
Generally this is common after the car has been idle for a few days, not just overnight.
What weight of oil are you using?
Where are you located?
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Old 02-24-2010, 10:09 AM   #3
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I live in the Chicago Area. I have been using Mobil 1 and the weight is what Porsche recommends (not sure). All Oil changes done at Porsche dealership. So I know they are doing it right. (or at least they better be for what they charge me.
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Old 02-24-2010, 11:00 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biang
Has anyone ever had this problem?

Background Info: I have a 2006 Boxster S with 13K miles. Never driven in the winter. Oil changed every time it went into storage in October.

Problem: Once or twice a summer, I get a noise when I start the car in the morning (not driven since the evening before). (Never happened when the engine was warm) The engine starts up and there is a noise coming from the engine that sounds like a chain rattling. It lasts less than a second. The engine runs fine and there is no smoke coming from the exhaust. It almost sounds like the timing chain is loose (that is, if Porsche uses a metal timing chain). When the car gets out of storage in late March I will take it in for its 4 year service and get Porsche's opinion but I am worried it might be serious.

Any help?

Randy
Probably hydrolic lifters.
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Old 02-24-2010, 11:47 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biang
I live in the Chicago Area. I have been using Mobil 1 and the weight is what Porsche recommends (not sure). All Oil changes done at Porsche dealership. So I know they are doing it right. (or at least they better be for what they charge me.
The oil is the problem. Mobil 1 has gone down hill for some time, suffering from a litany of issues ranging from shear break down in as little as 2K miles, to loss of film strength, which is what is causing your chain tensioners to bleed down and make noise. Get rid of the Mobil 1 and your problems will go with it……………..
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Old 02-24-2010, 11:55 AM   #6
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"The oil is the problem. Mobil 1 has gone down hill for some time, suffering from a litany of issues ranging from shear break down in as little as 2K miles, to loss of film strength, which is what is causing your chain tensioners to bleed down and make noise. Get rid of the Mobil 1 and your problems will go with it……………..

Is this something you just made up? Any labs produce these results?
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Old 02-24-2010, 12:03 PM   #7
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Tensioners are clogged.... or have failed.
Common. See it all the time.
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Old 02-24-2010, 12:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Raby
Tensioners are clogged.... or have failed.
Common. See it all the time.

What are "Tensioners" and how is it fixed. Mine does this as well. Costly??
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Old 02-24-2010, 12:55 PM   #9
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Mine made the noise when I first bought it in 05'. I was petrified for days that I broke something. The noise came right at startup.

I was told by the dealer and a porsche mechanic that it was the lifters. 5 years 40K miles later no issues.

The other sound that freaks me is when the breaks get wet and the car sits. When you try to go in reverse, it's a treat.

I'm no pro, but its the information I've been given.
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Old 02-24-2010, 01:13 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pboxstercar
"The oil is the problem. Mobil 1 has gone down hill for some time, suffering from a litany of issues ranging from shear break down in as little as 2K miles, to loss of film strength, which is what is causing your chain tensioners to bleed down and make noise. Get rid of the Mobil 1 and your problems will go with it……………..

Is this something you just made up? Any labs produce these results?
How much would you like? we have been collecting UoA's for almost 10 years now....... Mobil 1 started going to Hell when Exxon bought them in 1989. They have been consistently reformulating Mobil 1 products into lesser performers, some even losing all their ACEA ratings in the process. The current version of 0W-40 took several attempts before it regained any ACEA ratings, and then only just. Mobil 1 once was a great product; unfortunately it no longer is.

There are several great full synthetics available that simply put Mobil 1, particularly their 0W-40 grade, to shame in just about every category, particularly the “ability to stay in grade” under high temp/high shear conditions, which the current Mobil 1 is very poor at.
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Old 02-24-2010, 01:17 PM   #11
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wow... looks like we'll have to do a DVD on this.
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Old 02-24-2010, 05:19 PM   #12
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I have a 2006 987S.
I live in the Chicago area too.
About 32,000 miles.
Winter hibernation.
Been using Red Line 5W40 since about 7,000 miles with excellent results (Blackstone oil analysis).
I take my car to the dealership but bring my own oil.

No tappet noise or tensioner noises here.

I am going to run Mobil 5W50 (hard to find) when I do my year-end oil change in October 2010.
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Old 02-25-2010, 04:24 AM   #13
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"How much would you like? we have been collecting UoA's for almost 10 years now....... Mobil 1 started going to Hell when Exxon bought them in 1989. They have been consistently reformulating Mobil 1 products into lesser performers, some even losing all their ACEA ratings in the process. The current version of 0W-40 took several attempts before it regained any ACEA ratings, and then only just. Mobil 1 once was a great product; unfortunately it no longer is."

Again you site nothing but your RED opinion. Repeating the same thing over again does not change it from opinion to fact.
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Old 02-25-2010, 05:03 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pboxstercar
"How much would you like? we have been collecting UoA's for almost 10 years now....... Mobil 1 started going to Hell when Exxon bought them in 1989. They have been consistently reformulating Mobil 1 products into lesser performers, some even losing all their ACEA ratings in the process. The current version of 0W-40 took several attempts before it regained any ACEA ratings, and then only just. Mobil 1 once was a great product; unfortunately it no longer is."

Again you site nothing but your RED opinion. Repeating the same thing over again does not change it from opinion to fact.
Anyone wondering why I NEVER make an oil recommendation can read this debate and understand my reasoning.

My direct experience with the understanding, development and modification of the M96 engine has proven to me that JFP's statements are real. I have been substantiating similar findings since 2006. LN Engineering and I have spent well over 6 figures on sourcing oils, carrying out UOA and collecting data.

I did that for the benefit of my engine program, not to debate keyboard to keyboard with those who have never touched the internals of an M96 engine with a wrench.

Last week during "M96 101" we got off on a small oil debate and I KILLED the topic in it's tracks.. Part of the course rules was no one asks me for an oil recommendation!
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Last edited by Jake Raby; 02-25-2010 at 05:08 AM.
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Old 02-25-2010, 05:36 AM   #15
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It takes only rhetoric to dispute

Experience to understand.

So do your own Used Oil Analysis and form your own conclusion.

And in the many "oil" threads, why is it we don't see a Mobil 1 supporter citing his figures to "prove" that JFP and Charles and Jake are wrong. Most everyone I've ever seen posting their figures on the subject comes to the same conclusion.

Why has Porsche quietly changed their miles between oil changes recommendation? Wouldn't be because the effectiveness of the oil they recommend isn't as good as they thought, would it?

Last edited by mikefocke; 02-26-2010 at 07:22 AM.
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Old 02-25-2010, 05:48 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pboxstercar
"How much would you like? we have been collecting UoA's for almost 10 years now....... Mobil 1 started going to Hell when Exxon bought them in 1989. They have been consistently reformulating Mobil 1 products into lesser performers, some even losing all their ACEA ratings in the process. The current version of 0W-40 took several attempts before it regained any ACEA ratings, and then only just. Mobil 1 once was a great product; unfortunately it no longer is."

Again you site nothing but your RED opinion. Repeating the same thing over again does not change it from opinion to fact.
I have been posting UoA analysis on this and other sites for many years. And my shop is not the only critics of Mobil 1 products; you can find similar data on BITOIG, Renn Tech, PPBB and other performance oriented sites as well.

Mobil 1 products, and in particular, the 0W-40 "approved" grade, once were PaO based Group IV oils that demonstrated great UoA's (high retention of TBN values, the ability to stay in advertised grade under high heat or shear, etc.). Then they got reformulated into Group III+ oils, and then down to Group III (or worse). This one of the primary reasons the film strengths of Mobil 1 products have deteriorated so badly over time. If you want to learn more, you can run a search and find multiple posts on this subject over the years as it occurred, particularly on BITOG.

As for lab data (we offer interested clients full UoA’s as a regular part of our service), Mobil 1 grades that used to demonstrate TBN value retention of 75% after 6-7,000 miles now have only 25% retention after only 2,000 miles of street driving. Grade analysis has shown that the 0W-40 product can totally fall out of grade in as little as 1500 miles on the street. We have even seen this poor level of performance in Cadillac engines, so it is not just the M96, or hard use; it is the oil. Mobil 1 15W-50 used to be the mainstay of the air-cooled crowd, where the oil performance is even more critical to the engine, but the stuff on the shelf today is a shadow of what it used to be, and cannot even meet the essential ACEA ratings it used to hold. We used to use Mobil 1 products as a standard offering to our customers; we no longer use any Mobil 1 products, and will not use them if asked to.

Unfortunately, as Jake just noted, there is something about oil discussions amongst the Porsche crowd that is akin to talking about politics or religion; reams of statistically significant data collected over several years get dismissed as “opinion”………………

At the end of the day, it is your car, so use what ever you want. Me, I’ll read and digest the available data and act accordingly…………….
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Old 02-25-2010, 05:49 AM   #17
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The fewer miles between services the more oil is sold, and the more service is needed... Don't get me wrong, I mandate 5K mile services on my engines and believe greatly in keeping the contaminated oil out of these engines.

BUT not every selection that is made by companies is made because brand XXX is the best, in some instances it only means that someone got paid under the table to make product XXX applicable to of a certain manufacturers engines.

I personally know professional race teams who run a Mobil 1 decal on their car but you won't find that oil in their engine..

If anyone thinks that recommendations are only made for the sole benefit of the car/ engine they are sorely mistaken.

When new engines come from Porsche they are shipped with oil in them. I recently collected some of that oil when I dismantled an engine that we bought from Porsche to take apart and use for reference/ comparison. A oil analysis is being done on that oil now to see if it has the elemental levels that are generally associated with M1.

I'll close by stating that data can also be derived from simply observing the characteristics of an engine with different oils during start up and operation.
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Last edited by Jake Raby; 02-25-2010 at 05:53 AM.
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Old 02-25-2010, 06:27 AM   #18
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"At the end of the day, it is your car, so use what ever you want. Me, I’ll read and digest the available data and act accordingly……………."


Again - it's all opinion. What I hate about this board is too many people like you stating their opiniion as though it's fact. I's amazing that someone ask's a question and you answer the question (The oil is the problem) like your a Petroleum engineer. Are you?
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Old 02-25-2010, 06:30 AM   #19
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I'm going to get some popcorn and watch this one...
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Old 02-25-2010, 06:34 AM   #20
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Then the original poster should change his oil and see if the problem goes away. If it does that should quantify JFP's hypothesis that the oil is the problem.

Been there, done that and I am willing to make a wager that JFP is correct.
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