Go Back   986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners > Porsche Boxster & Cayman Forums > Boxster Racing Forum

Post Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-12-2011, 12:12 PM   #1
Certified Boxster Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,669
Oil Starvation

Ok, I've been going to the track regularly all year and have accumulated 18 track days thus far and plan to reach around 24 by years end.

I keep hearing peripheral comments about concerns regarding oil starvation. Of course, this sounds like something I should be concerned about.

Your thoughts? Experience? Advice? Recommendations?

__________________
1999 996 C2 - sold - bought back - sold for more
1997 Spec Boxster BSR #254
1979 911 SC
POC Licensed DE/TT Instructor
thstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2011, 05:08 AM   #2
Registered User
 
ppbon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 529
If you run ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by thstone View Post
Ok, I've been going to the track regularly all year and have accumulated 18 track days thus far and plan to reach around 24 by years end.

I keep hearing peripheral comments about concerns regarding oil starvation. Of course, this sounds like something I should be concerned about.

Your thoughts? Experience? Advice? Recommendations?
... with "R" compound tires and you're fast around the track, you need to be concerned.
On the long, fast sweepers, the car generates enough lateral G-forces to force the oil to the "outside" of the pan, leaving the pumps completely dry during the turn, until the oil comes back.
Once or twice is not a big deal, but repeating this over and over on a track is just waiting for the inevitable.
Generally piston rod #6 will be the one to go from overheating and lack of lubrication. When it goes, kiss the engine goodbye.
You can solve this by installing an Accusump system.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro
__________________
Racecar spelled backwards is: Racecar!
ppbon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2011, 09:05 AM   #3
Certified Boxster Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,669
I'll be driving on my last set of low treadwear street tires (140 UTQG) to finish 2011 but plan to go to r-comps in early 2012 or as soon as this last set of street tires are done.
__________________
1999 996 C2 - sold - bought back - sold for more
1997 Spec Boxster BSR #254
1979 911 SC
POC Licensed DE/TT Instructor
thstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2011, 11:26 AM   #4
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Miami florida
Posts: 1,591
Quote:
Originally Posted by thstone View Post
I'll be driving on my last set of low treadwear street tires (140 UTQG) to finish 2011 but plan to go to r-comps in early 2012 or as soon as this last set of street tires are done.
Have you done any oiling mods? Any clouds of oil smoke? What tracks do you run? I want to try Homestead in Miami this fall, but thanks to the interwebs, I'm afraid that my engine will blow at the first left. Homestead has 2 fairly short high speed lefts, turns 1 and 10, other than that, its flat without long turns, so I may chance it.
__________________
Current car

2000 Boxster 2.7l red/black

Previous cars

1973 Opel Manta
1969(?) Fiat 850 Convertible
1979 Lancia Beta Coupe
1981 Alfa Romeo GTV 6
1985 Alfa Romeo Graduate
1985 Porsche 944
1989 Porsche 944
1981 Triumph TR7
1989 (?) Alfa Romeo Milano
1993 Saab 9000
san rensho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2011, 07:43 AM   #5
Registered User
 
jsceash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,466
Garage
I've been looking for any answers on this and found this on Planet 9 there are actually several there one has the service replacement procedure. First fix. Deep sump with a baffle second fix.

Oil Separator Modification - Pics - AOS Motorsport VOS -
__________________
2003 Black 986. modified for Advanced level HPDE and open track days.
* 3.6L LN block, 06 heads, Carrillo H rods, IDP with 987 intake, Oil mods, LN IMS. * Spec II Clutch, 3.2L S Spec P-P FW. * D2 shocks, GT3 arms & and links, Spacers front and rear * Weight reduced, No carpet, AC deleted, Remote PS pump, PS pump deleted. Recaro Pole position seats, Brey crouse ext. 5 point harness, NHP sport exhaust
jsceash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2011, 08:13 PM   #6
Certified Boxster Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,669
Quote:
Originally Posted by san rensho View Post
Have you done any oiling mods? Any clouds of oil smoke? What tracks do you run? I want to try Homestead in Miami this fall, but thanks to the interwebs, I'm afraid that my engine will blow at the first left. Homestead has 2 fairly short high speed lefts, turns 1 and 10, other than that, its flat without long turns, so I may chance it.
I've haven't done any oiling mods, still straight stock. No clouds of smoke.

This year I've run at Willow Springs Big Track, Willow Springs Streets, Pomona Road Course, AutoClub Speedway (Fontana), and Laguna Seca. I've run four days at AutoClub Speedway which is the NASCAR/IndyCar track where we run the front straightway and the big banking in Turns 1 and 2 which is a high speed (~125mph), long duration, high-g turn.

So far, no enigine or oil problems whatsoever. Engine has 96000 miles and still runs like its brand new (and original IMS).
__________________
1999 996 C2 - sold - bought back - sold for more
1997 Spec Boxster BSR #254
1979 911 SC
POC Licensed DE/TT Instructor
thstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2011, 04:28 AM   #7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 1,820
i'm accusumped. it can be done for less than $500.
__________________
insite
'99 Boxster
3.4L Conversion

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...1/KMTGPR-1.jpg
insite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2011, 06:18 AM   #8
Registered User
 
jaykay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: toronto
Posts: 2,668
Quote:
Originally Posted by insite View Post
i'm accusumped. it can be done for less than $500.
Insite did you relocate your oil filter in order to use a regular size....what does your system look like and where did you get it?
__________________
986 00S
jaykay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2011, 06:38 AM   #9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 1,820
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaykay View Post
Insite did you relocate your oil filter in order to use a regular size....what does your system look like and where did you get it?

my car is primarily track w/ some weekend duty, so i went with the baby filter. i'll take a picture of the system tonight. it mounts in the trunk & uses a manual valve. basically the same thing LN sells (2 liter). i bought most of the parts from race-mart. i saved all the part numbers w/ prices.
__________________
insite
'99 Boxster
3.4L Conversion

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...1/KMTGPR-1.jpg
insite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2011, 05:50 PM   #10
Registered User
 
Wingnut2u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 288
If the accusump is too much for you, you can always add an X51 oil pan which has baffles in it to keep the oil from accumulating away from the oil pickup during high g turns. I blew my first engine due to oil starvation (prior to adding an X51 oil pan) while running in the intermediate group with R comp tires. Since that fateful day I have now installed the X51, I am now in the most advanced group. I say this not to brag but to say that my driving has improved dramatically since I blew my engine which in turn means that my g forces in the turns has also increased. No problems since installing the X51. The X51 is not a cure all but it should provide you with a little extra piece of mind.
__________________
2001 Boxster S
RUF front bumper, Techart side skirts, Gemballa rear bumper, PSS9s, Cargraphic 18" racing wheels, RUF exhaust, GT3 seats
Wingnut2u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2011, 06:10 PM   #11
Registered User
 
jaykay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: toronto
Posts: 2,668
I am quite sure the standard oil pan has baffles. How are the X-51 baffles superior? I would think a deep sump would help more.
__________________
986 00S

Last edited by jaykay; 10-25-2011 at 07:05 PM.
jaykay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2011, 06:55 PM   #12
Registered User
 
Wingnut2u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 288
You are quite wrong about the standard oil pan having baffles. Standard oil pan is relatively flat with no baffles. Do a Google search and you can find multiple pictures and threads showing the difference. That being said, an accusump is an ever safer alternative to the X51 but a larger commitment financially, and functionally. The accusump sits in the rear trunk, which effect its use as daily driver if you use it for storage. Also it will hurt the resale value of the car as no one will want a car with an accusump unless the purpose of the car is to be used as a dedicated track car, which most potential buyers of a Boxster will not be. I am just saying that I drive my car hard on the track and I have been fine with just the X51 oil pan.
__________________
2001 Boxster S
RUF front bumper, Techart side skirts, Gemballa rear bumper, PSS9s, Cargraphic 18" racing wheels, RUF exhaust, GT3 seats
Wingnut2u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2011, 07:14 PM   #13
Registered User
 
jaykay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: toronto
Posts: 2,668
Really well you learn some thing everyday. Maybe it's deep sump kits I see and the baffles are part of it. I do recall trimming and such of existing baffle parts
__________________
986 00S
jaykay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2011, 07:30 PM   #14
Registered User
 
Wingnut2u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 288
I am slightly off, there are baffles in the 986 oil pan, I was looking at a pic of just the replacement oil pan which doesn't show the baffles in the pic, but the X51 oil pan is an improved version over the original and from what I have read the spec boxster racers add both the X51 and the accusump. I have heard mixed feelings on if the deep sump kits are effective but if you do go with a deep sump kit I would go with LN's version.
__________________
2001 Boxster S
RUF front bumper, Techart side skirts, Gemballa rear bumper, PSS9s, Cargraphic 18" racing wheels, RUF exhaust, GT3 seats
Wingnut2u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2011, 08:14 PM   #15
Registered User
 
Wingnut2u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 288
This is a reply from Suncoast Porsche
Deep Sump Oil Pan Spacer, when is it required? - 6speedonline.com Forums

[IMG]http://www.****************************************************.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/x51oilpan.jpg[/IMG]

See those little rubber flaps hanging down? That's what makes the X51 oil pan unique, the flaps open & close during significant oil shifts. The force of the shifting oil closes the flap, and helps to keep oil in the center chamber for an extended amount of time. Since these flaps are not installed on most models, oil can rush out of the center chamber under extreme conditions and bam.......the oil pick-up tube has no oil. This piece has been very effective, and a great alternative to replacing an entire engine. Driving these cars to the extremes does have it's risks, but this should help to reduce that risk.

The X51 pan can be modified to fit most late model cars, there is an edge on the vertical bracket which has to be cut to clear the inner components (I have a templete with dimensions). A mechanic should be able to make the modifications with a grinder. It can be fitted on any Boxster, Cayman, or 1999+ Carrera (not required for Turbo, GT2, or GT3 models).
__________________
2001 Boxster S
RUF front bumper, Techart side skirts, Gemballa rear bumper, PSS9s, Cargraphic 18" racing wheels, RUF exhaust, GT3 seats
Wingnut2u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2011, 07:22 AM   #16
Registered User
 
The Radium King's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,121
i think pedro hit the reason for oiling mods. for the 986 there are three major options:

deep sump - LN does a 1/2 quart, Mantis does a bigger one. the idea is that with more oil in the sump you need longer, more aggressive cornering to starve the oil pickup tube. the bigger the sump, the less clearance you get. some come with pickup tube extensions, some do not. requires modifying the existing windage tray windows (the flap things that hold the oil in close to the oil pickup tube). the oem windage tray has cheap plastic flaps held on by cheap plastic tabs and can break.

x-51 windage tray - designed for the 997, this tray has more robust flaps and is more 'oil tight'; that is, it will hold more oil near the pickup tube for a longer period of time. this unit is for an m97 and requires modification to fit an m96; requires major modification to work with a deep sump. don at ebs racing is now making an x-51 style windage tray specifically for the m96.

accusump - pressurised oil in a tube. when it senses oil pressure drop it adds more oil. research at canton on le engineering.

personally, i think that the ebs x-51 is for me.

ps, if you are going to r-comps you might want to think about power steering cooling also ...
The Radium King is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2011, 07:35 AM   #17
Registered User
 
jaykay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: toronto
Posts: 2,668
Thanks for the pictures....I think we are looking what is termed baffles. I always thought the windage tray to be the flat "tray" that covers the deep sump area and shields it from air currents that could blow oil away from the pick up. The stock pan has no windage tray...as far as my understanding goes

I am actually wondering if my 3.2 already has the desirable 996 oil return swirl pots so I don't have to go out and buy them. I had thought that I would have to cut holes in the windage tray for them
__________________
986 00S
jaykay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2011, 05:48 PM   #18
Registered User
 
jsceash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,466
Garage
This is the baffle in the 03 Boxster 2.7



I'm in the process of installing the LNEngineering pan extension.
__________________
2003 Black 986. modified for Advanced level HPDE and open track days.
* 3.6L LN block, 06 heads, Carrillo H rods, IDP with 987 intake, Oil mods, LN IMS. * Spec II Clutch, 3.2L S Spec P-P FW. * D2 shocks, GT3 arms & and links, Spacers front and rear * Weight reduced, No carpet, AC deleted, Remote PS pump, PS pump deleted. Recaro Pole position seats, Brey crouse ext. 5 point harness, NHP sport exhaust
jsceash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2011, 07:15 PM   #19
Track rat
 
Topless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Southern ID
Posts: 3,701
Garage
Yes, the three choices are:
-Deep sump
-X-51 baffled pan
-Accusump

I chose the X-51 pan for my car. Several of my Boxster/996 buddies have done the deep sump or Accusump to good effect.

We have one track in SoCal that is a known M96 killer (Fontana Roval). Turns 1 & 2 are banked decreasing radius left for a very long time at 130 mph+ leading to a heavy braking zone and 90deg left. I know at least 4 cars that killed their motors with stock oiling and comp tires there. So far I have run that track 6 days with the X-51 pan and no oiling issues. Fingers crossed.
__________________
2009 Cayman 2.9L PDK (with a few tweaks)
PCA-GPX Chief Driving Instructor-Ret.
Topless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2011, 07:00 AM   #20
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,656
Deep sump spacer by itself is quite ineffective IMO.



See the difference:
Rennlist Discussion Forums - View Single Post - question about x51 oil pan and baffles

ekam is offline   Reply With Quote
Post Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page