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Old 10-12-2011, 12:12 PM   #1
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Oil Starvation

Ok, I've been going to the track regularly all year and have accumulated 18 track days thus far and plan to reach around 24 by years end.

I keep hearing peripheral comments about concerns regarding oil starvation. Of course, this sounds like something I should be concerned about.

Your thoughts? Experience? Advice? Recommendations?
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Old 10-13-2011, 05:08 AM   #2
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If you run ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by thstone View Post
Ok, I've been going to the track regularly all year and have accumulated 18 track days thus far and plan to reach around 24 by years end.

I keep hearing peripheral comments about concerns regarding oil starvation. Of course, this sounds like something I should be concerned about.

Your thoughts? Experience? Advice? Recommendations?
... with "R" compound tires and you're fast around the track, you need to be concerned.
On the long, fast sweepers, the car generates enough lateral G-forces to force the oil to the "outside" of the pan, leaving the pumps completely dry during the turn, until the oil comes back.
Once or twice is not a big deal, but repeating this over and over on a track is just waiting for the inevitable.
Generally piston rod #6 will be the one to go from overheating and lack of lubrication. When it goes, kiss the engine goodbye.
You can solve this by installing an Accusump system.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:05 AM   #3
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I'll be driving on my last set of low treadwear street tires (140 UTQG) to finish 2011 but plan to go to r-comps in early 2012 or as soon as this last set of street tires are done.
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Old 10-13-2011, 11:26 AM   #4
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I'll be driving on my last set of low treadwear street tires (140 UTQG) to finish 2011 but plan to go to r-comps in early 2012 or as soon as this last set of street tires are done.
Have you done any oiling mods? Any clouds of oil smoke? What tracks do you run? I want to try Homestead in Miami this fall, but thanks to the interwebs, I'm afraid that my engine will blow at the first left. Homestead has 2 fairly short high speed lefts, turns 1 and 10, other than that, its flat without long turns, so I may chance it.
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Old 10-14-2011, 07:43 AM   #5
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I've been looking for any answers on this and found this on Planet 9 there are actually several there one has the service replacement procedure. First fix. Deep sump with a baffle second fix.

Oil Separator Modification - Pics - AOS Motorsport VOS -
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Old 10-14-2011, 08:13 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by san rensho View Post
Have you done any oiling mods? Any clouds of oil smoke? What tracks do you run? I want to try Homestead in Miami this fall, but thanks to the interwebs, I'm afraid that my engine will blow at the first left. Homestead has 2 fairly short high speed lefts, turns 1 and 10, other than that, its flat without long turns, so I may chance it.
I've haven't done any oiling mods, still straight stock. No clouds of smoke.

This year I've run at Willow Springs Big Track, Willow Springs Streets, Pomona Road Course, AutoClub Speedway (Fontana), and Laguna Seca. I've run four days at AutoClub Speedway which is the NASCAR/IndyCar track where we run the front straightway and the big banking in Turns 1 and 2 which is a high speed (~125mph), long duration, high-g turn.

So far, no enigine or oil problems whatsoever. Engine has 96000 miles and still runs like its brand new (and original IMS).
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Old 10-25-2011, 04:28 AM   #7
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i'm accusumped. it can be done for less than $500.
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Old 10-25-2011, 06:18 AM   #8
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i'm accusumped. it can be done for less than $500.
Insite did you relocate your oil filter in order to use a regular size....what does your system look like and where did you get it?
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Old 10-25-2011, 06:38 AM   #9
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Insite did you relocate your oil filter in order to use a regular size....what does your system look like and where did you get it?

my car is primarily track w/ some weekend duty, so i went with the baby filter. i'll take a picture of the system tonight. it mounts in the trunk & uses a manual valve. basically the same thing LN sells (2 liter). i bought most of the parts from race-mart. i saved all the part numbers w/ prices.
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Old 10-25-2011, 05:50 PM   #10
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If the accusump is too much for you, you can always add an X51 oil pan which has baffles in it to keep the oil from accumulating away from the oil pickup during high g turns. I blew my first engine due to oil starvation (prior to adding an X51 oil pan) while running in the intermediate group with R comp tires. Since that fateful day I have now installed the X51, I am now in the most advanced group. I say this not to brag but to say that my driving has improved dramatically since I blew my engine which in turn means that my g forces in the turns has also increased. No problems since installing the X51. The X51 is not a cure all but it should provide you with a little extra piece of mind.
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Old 10-25-2011, 06:10 PM   #11
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I am quite sure the standard oil pan has baffles. How are the X-51 baffles superior? I would think a deep sump would help more.
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Old 10-25-2011, 06:55 PM   #12
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You are quite wrong about the standard oil pan having baffles. Standard oil pan is relatively flat with no baffles. Do a Google search and you can find multiple pictures and threads showing the difference. That being said, an accusump is an ever safer alternative to the X51 but a larger commitment financially, and functionally. The accusump sits in the rear trunk, which effect its use as daily driver if you use it for storage. Also it will hurt the resale value of the car as no one will want a car with an accusump unless the purpose of the car is to be used as a dedicated track car, which most potential buyers of a Boxster will not be. I am just saying that I drive my car hard on the track and I have been fine with just the X51 oil pan.
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Old 10-25-2011, 07:14 PM   #13
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Really well you learn some thing everyday. Maybe it's deep sump kits I see and the baffles are part of it. I do recall trimming and such of existing baffle parts
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Old 10-25-2011, 07:30 PM   #14
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I am slightly off, there are baffles in the 986 oil pan, I was looking at a pic of just the replacement oil pan which doesn't show the baffles in the pic, but the X51 oil pan is an improved version over the original and from what I have read the spec boxster racers add both the X51 and the accusump. I have heard mixed feelings on if the deep sump kits are effective but if you do go with a deep sump kit I would go with LN's version.
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Old 10-25-2011, 08:14 PM   #15
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This is a reply from Suncoast Porsche
Deep Sump Oil Pan Spacer, when is it required? - 6speedonline.com Forums

[IMG]http://www.****************************************************.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/x51oilpan.jpg[/IMG]

See those little rubber flaps hanging down? That's what makes the X51 oil pan unique, the flaps open & close during significant oil shifts. The force of the shifting oil closes the flap, and helps to keep oil in the center chamber for an extended amount of time. Since these flaps are not installed on most models, oil can rush out of the center chamber under extreme conditions and bam.......the oil pick-up tube has no oil. This piece has been very effective, and a great alternative to replacing an entire engine. Driving these cars to the extremes does have it's risks, but this should help to reduce that risk.

The X51 pan can be modified to fit most late model cars, there is an edge on the vertical bracket which has to be cut to clear the inner components (I have a templete with dimensions). A mechanic should be able to make the modifications with a grinder. It can be fitted on any Boxster, Cayman, or 1999+ Carrera (not required for Turbo, GT2, or GT3 models).
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Old 10-26-2011, 07:22 AM   #16
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i think pedro hit the reason for oiling mods. for the 986 there are three major options:

deep sump - LN does a 1/2 quart, Mantis does a bigger one. the idea is that with more oil in the sump you need longer, more aggressive cornering to starve the oil pickup tube. the bigger the sump, the less clearance you get. some come with pickup tube extensions, some do not. requires modifying the existing windage tray windows (the flap things that hold the oil in close to the oil pickup tube). the oem windage tray has cheap plastic flaps held on by cheap plastic tabs and can break.

x-51 windage tray - designed for the 997, this tray has more robust flaps and is more 'oil tight'; that is, it will hold more oil near the pickup tube for a longer period of time. this unit is for an m97 and requires modification to fit an m96; requires major modification to work with a deep sump. don at ebs racing is now making an x-51 style windage tray specifically for the m96.

accusump - pressurised oil in a tube. when it senses oil pressure drop it adds more oil. research at canton on le engineering.

personally, i think that the ebs x-51 is for me.

ps, if you are going to r-comps you might want to think about power steering cooling also ...
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Old 10-26-2011, 07:35 AM   #17
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Thanks for the pictures....I think we are looking what is termed baffles. I always thought the windage tray to be the flat "tray" that covers the deep sump area and shields it from air currents that could blow oil away from the pick up. The stock pan has no windage tray...as far as my understanding goes

I am actually wondering if my 3.2 already has the desirable 996 oil return swirl pots so I don't have to go out and buy them. I had thought that I would have to cut holes in the windage tray for them
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Old 10-28-2011, 05:48 PM   #18
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This is the baffle in the 03 Boxster 2.7



I'm in the process of installing the LNEngineering pan extension.
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Old 10-28-2011, 07:15 PM   #19
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Yes, the three choices are:
-Deep sump
-X-51 baffled pan
-Accusump

I chose the X-51 pan for my car. Several of my Boxster/996 buddies have done the deep sump or Accusump to good effect.

We have one track in SoCal that is a known M96 killer (Fontana Roval). Turns 1 & 2 are banked decreasing radius left for a very long time at 130 mph+ leading to a heavy braking zone and 90deg left. I know at least 4 cars that killed their motors with stock oiling and comp tires there. So far I have run that track 6 days with the X-51 pan and no oiling issues. Fingers crossed.
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Old 10-29-2011, 07:00 AM   #20
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Deep sump spacer by itself is quite ineffective IMO.



See the difference:
Rennlist Discussion Forums - View Single Post - question about x51 oil pan and baffles
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