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Old 01-24-2007, 12:22 AM   #1
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roll bars?

Are the bars on 987s roll bars? My dealer said so, but I know he's full of **************** (told me 800 miles for break-in)



They aren't metal or anything so I'm not sure.


I want to run a hpde event with nasa. Thanks




Oh yeah, how do I access my engine ????

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Old 01-24-2007, 06:50 AM   #2
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yes they aren't just for show, take a knock at the horizontal section of tubing it's solid and anchored to the frame/chasis. It's used as the mounting point for harness belts. (see pic) Your windshield header is also designed to protect your head in a roll over.

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Old 01-24-2007, 06:52 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist
Are the bars on 987s roll bars? My dealer said so, but I know he's full of **************** (told me 800 miles for break-in)



They aren't metal or anything so I'm not sure.


I want to run a hpde event with nasa. Thanks




Oh yeah, how do I access my engine ????
Hi,

Yes, the Roll Bars are made of high strength steel as is the windshield header and 'A' Pillars. These have sufficient strength to support the car's weight.

However, you could also be subject to the Broomstick Rule for Track, DE, and Auto-X events depending upon their requirements and your height when seated.

The Broomstick Rule states: Open cars must be equipped with an approved
roll bar. If the car is equipped with factory seat belts, a broom stick placed across
the top of the roll bar and the front roll hoop/ windshield frame shall be at least 2” above the driver’s helmet. If the car is equipped with current SFI approved legal 4, 5 or 6 point harness system the drivers helmet shall be at least below the level of the broomstick.


If you cannot pass this requirement, a Roll Bar Extension may be required, see: http://www.northstarmotorsports.com/products/sfID1/34/sfID2/35/manufacturerID/91/productID/1479 and http://www.bombaydigital.com/boxster/projects/bkrollbar/ Hope this helps...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Last edited by MNBoxster; 01-24-2007 at 07:28 AM.
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Old 01-24-2007, 06:55 AM   #4
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They can be considered a roll bar, in that they are structural material mounted to the frame. This differs from a style bar, Miata for example.

The true question is "Who's asking?"

Some tracks/events accept the Boxster, as is, for HPDE. Our local track is one example, I drove 4 DE's with no mods required, but these were not PCA events.

PCA and SCCA have emphasis on safety, and usually enforce the broomstick rule, that the top of your helmet must be 2" below the imaginary line from the top of the windshield frame to the top of the roll bar. I'm tall, so I flunked; couldn't drive with PCA.

The Brey Krause company makes a roll bar extension for the Boxster that PCA and SCCA accept for DE. It raises the height a couple of inches, still allows normal top operation, and is an easy bolt-on to install. Mine's for sale if you need one.

Finally, none of the above qualify as a roll bar in the racing definition, in that there is no lateral cross bracing and no rear bracing.

Check with the specific HPDE safety coordinator for the event you're interested in and go from there, no sense doing mods if they are not needed. Good luck and go for it, the Boxster is a blast to drive at the track!
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Old 01-24-2007, 06:57 AM   #5
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great minds think alike - sorry Jim, I was drafting my response while you posted, no duplication intended.

Also, needed to plug my BK extension for sale...
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Old 01-24-2007, 07:11 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist
Oh yeah, how do I access my engine ????
Seriously??

Proper procedure is in your owners manual.

Access to the top of the engine is via the panel under the padded carpet of the rear deck shelf...
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Old 01-24-2007, 07:26 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limoncello
great minds think alike - sorry Jim, I was drafting my response while you posted, no duplication intended.

Also, needed to plug my BK extension for sale...
Hi,

No worries - great minds do think alike...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99
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Old 01-24-2007, 09:22 AM   #8
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Thanks a lot guys. I was wondering about that also...If the roll bars weren't high enough.


I am a relatively tall guy, so I know I will get screwed here.



How much are you selling yours for, Limoncello?



Oh and I have ONE more question:


Is it true that if I buy racing harnesses or street harnesses that I will no longer need my side/front air bags? If so, would you recommend removing them? I could sure use the weight savings
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Old 01-24-2007, 09:47 AM   #9
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Holy crap...700+ dollars for a HELMET.


Racing and track driving is NOT CHEAP!!!


I could MAKE a better helmet for less than that. Jesus!!!
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Old 01-24-2007, 09:54 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist
Holy crap...700+ dollars for a HELMET.


Racing and track driving is NOT CHEAP!!!


I could MAKE a better helmet for less than that. Jesus!!!

The helmet is about the last thing to skimp on....inmho...and you can find quality helmets for less...
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Old 01-24-2007, 10:14 AM   #11
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Bav Motorist, here's some mildly interesting info on the 987 rollbars:

The 987 roll-over bar is now higher and further back than on the 986. It is made of austenitic stainless steel, a special stainless steel alloy that offers maximum strength, and is manufactured using IHPF technology (internal high-pressure forming). This new manufacturing method and an optimised design have permitted a 30 % increase in strength.

These measures combined with the new seats and their higher headrests have permitted a further improvement in the already impressive passenger survival space of the previous model.
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Old 01-24-2007, 10:15 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist
Holy crap...700+ dollars for a HELMET.


Racing and track driving is NOT CHEAP!!!


I could MAKE a better helmet for less than that. Jesus!!!

Estimate the present value of the $$ you expect your brain to make for you for the rest of your life, then add the present value of the non-$ experiences your brain is expected to process for your enjoyment. Compare that to the price of a helmet. If $700 is still too much, you obviously don't expect very much from your brain in the future.

And, yes, no one has ever claimed that track driving is cheap by any measure. Add to that the possibility of a total loss of your car, as insurance will not cover it. You definitely pay to play in that game.

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Old 01-24-2007, 10:27 AM   #13
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And, yes, no one has ever claimed that track driving is cheap by any measure. Add to that the possibility of a total loss of your car, as insurance will not cover it. You definitely pay to play in that game.
Z.
If I'm not mistaken, insurance does cover DE (driver's ed) events, since you're not racing. I know of one person who spun and bent some sheet metal at a DE, and his insurance company fixed it.
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Old 01-24-2007, 10:36 AM   #14
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Some insurance policies do and some don't cover HPDEs.


They also have some helmets for around 400. That's not as bad, but still. WTF.



So how about the street or racing harnesses? side and front air bags won't be needed anymore, right?
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Old 01-24-2007, 10:37 AM   #15
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I'm checking with Brey Krause as to whether their extension will fit a 987. Will post what I find.

Helmets - Bell sells auto race helmets on their site with the necessary Snell SA 2005 rating for $389 and up. I got mine cheaper through one of the auto race equipment sites as a discontinued color at a special price. BE CAREFUL if you take that route, since the "specials" are not all rated helmets, a fact which may be hard to discern.

PCA and SCCA require the rating. Check with your local safety coordinator to see whether the older Snell SA 2000 is acceptable.

But I shopped carefully and got a good, rated helmet for about $250, if I recall.

Gloves and boots are nice, too. It's only money...
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Old 01-24-2007, 10:37 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by JackG
If I'm not mistaken, insurance does cover DE (driver's ed) events, since you're not racing. I know of one person who spun and bent some sheet metal at a DE, and his insurance company fixed it.
This question has been raised many times in many forums. It's probably company and case dependent. Though the answer is not absolutely clear, I have concluded that it is more likely than not that it will NOT be covered. I just had a friend bang up his 968 on the last DE of the last season. I don't think he got anything from insurance.

One should check with their own ins company, though merely asking about that may raise some flags on the other side.

Z.
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Old 01-24-2007, 10:56 AM   #17
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The helmet is about the last thing to skimp on....inmho...and you can find quality helmets for less...
Hi,

There's no point in going overboard if you're just getting started in DE and Auto-X. A good $300 Bell Helmet will do you fine. A Bell Mag or 2SR will do you fine. I currently use the Bell M2, something like my 6th Bell Helmet.

But, if you get really interested, you find that good equipment actually helps your driving and your ETs. I used a borrowed Stand 21 helmet for a vintage race last fall (forgot some of the padding for my M2) and could not believe the difference that the lack of weight made. That's why I'm getting one. But, I do a couple DEs every year, about a dozen Auto-Xs and maybe 9-12 Vintage and Club races, so for me, it's a much more worthwhile investment. Also, be sure to get a Helmet Sock or Balaclava to keep the helmet fresh.

Check out the Bell Store for a variety of styles and prices: http://www.bellhelmets.com/index.cfm

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99
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Old 01-24-2007, 11:14 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by z12358
One should check with their own ins company, though merely asking about that may raise some flags on the other side.
Z.
Good thought. Every insurance company and state is different.

I wouldn't hesistate to ask, however. If they say you're covered, then you're covered. If they say you're not, then at least you know. They can't raise your rates or drop you for just asking.
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Old 01-24-2007, 12:59 PM   #19
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Lots of questions going on here, but here's my $.02

1) Yes, the 986 and 987 have an integrated "roll bar". It's what makes the Boxster a very safe and stiff "open" car.

2) Track driving DOES cost money ( both car prep, driver prep, hotels, gas, lodging.. tires, brake pads/fluid etc) - It's not unrealistic to budget $500-?? for a "weekend" at the track)

3) Got a $10 head, get a $10 helment. Good helmets can be $300-$1000. Try one on. Try another. Make sure it fits snugly and with comfort. Too loose = no good. Too snug = headaches. Also make sure you can fit your glasses on (if you wear them) and maybe have room for an earpiece, as most instrutors use helmet to helmet communicators rather than screaming at you all day.

4a) As of yet, Brey Krause does NOT make an extension for the 987, only the 986 cars.

4b) Some tracks, like VIR, REQUIRE a Boxster to have a BK bar, even if you are well under the "broomstick" level.

4c) Some clubs/tracks waive the broomstick requirement IF you run with the optional hardtop in place

4d) Some don't even know what a broomstick test is

5) Insurance... Case by case. Get a copy of your policies EXCLUSIONS first. It may already be spelled out. Yes DE is not racing, but with DE's popularity, it has come under fire from Ins. Co.s Oh, and even if the cover it the first time, it won't mean they won't drop you come renewal time

6) harnesses - when used in PCA events, will require a seat MADE for harnesses. Your stock seat will not pass this test. So, add special seats if you want to run harnesses.

7) If you car is street registered, you will need to maintain all factory equipment to pass your state's inspection programs. Don't bother removing them.

Hope this helps!
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Old 01-24-2007, 02:30 PM   #20
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well if you do damage ur car during a DE event, do u really have to tell the insurance company that you damaged it that way?

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