IMS and RMS with Tiptronic

[ddruker]

On my 2001 Boxster S, I'm just starting to see a new small oil leak - a few drops after each drive - coming from the area where the engine and the transmission mate together, just above the main crossbar where the front of the triangle pan and the retention cable are also located.



I spoke with my independent Porsche specialist (Reitmeirs Werkstat in Los Altos, CA) and they spec the job at about 16 hours, totaling $3,400 including an LN engineering bearing. That's about 30% of what the Boxster is worth!



There are not very many posts on this forum from folks with a Tiptronic doing the IMS and RMS jobs themselves, presumably because it's a pain to remove and replace the tip, and from a cost perspective I was not looking forward to having to purchase $500+ in special tools to take on both of these jobs.



I looked at the LN engineering website today, and was pleased to see they now offer loaner tools for free - they lend out the tools for both the IMR and RMS replacement at no charge. Very very smart of them!



The availability of free loaner tools is swinging me in the direction of doing the job myself - I also have a quickjack which should help, and I have the shop manual as well.



So my question to this most wise group is - is removing the tiptronic a reasonable project for an experienced home wrencher? Are there any additional special tools that I must figure out how to obtain? What am I likely to break when I remove the tip, and is there anything else you would recommend I replace or repair while I have the transmission out? Any other stuff I should look out for while I'm doing the job?



Just seeking your wisdom on whether it's reasonable or stupid to take this job on in my home garage.

[JFP in PA]

First of all, let me say that anyone that does IMS bearing retrofits for a living charges more to do it when the transmission is a Tip, and they do it for valid reason: It is a lot more work.

Along with all the IMS tooling, you will need a torque converter retaining pin, which is just a 5/16 metal rod with a handle on it. And do not even think about leaving the torque convert bolted to the flywheel and removing the trans, that is asking for more grief than you can imagine.

[solo118]

I got quoted 6k plus tax including IMS and water pump/thermostat. So you might not have a horrible deal if you can get him down to 3k!

[Alan Mackew]

I had my ims ,rear main and routine service done by a local independent, fitted Ln engineering direct oil feed cost was $4,500 au $ . The car is 2003 2.7 tip with 70.000 kms, they removed the engine and transmission as a unit, original ims was good, but happy with new spense of security now.

[MYRX]

Both were replaced in my 2000 S in 2019 by a shop in Atlanta. No where near the cost you guys are quoting. Car has been running perfect since the work was performed. The RMS was leaking and when repaired I had the IMS replaced as well. Also now use the spin on oil filter adaptor from LN engineering. Great improvement.

[berni29]

Hi

An experienced home wrencher can remove and refit the Tip transmission. I did it last year to check the IMS. I also did a fluid change, AOS, Trans/Gearbox mounts and some brake pipes etc while I was there. Its heavy. I put mine on an engine stand, which aided getting all the fluid out etc. Follow the guides carefully and make sure you remove the converter with the gearbox.

The sump on my Tip was rusty so I needed a new one, that was the only real surprise.

Its quite a lot more work than a manual.

All the best

Berni

[Brad604]

Hello. I just removed my Tiptronic on my 2000 S TODAY!! I am a pretty experienced backyard mechanic and found this job definitely a little teadius and a little tricky. I was unable to find much info online on how to do it, I mostly watched Burns's car Youtube vids for help but his was a manual not a Tip. I then followed the guide in the Bentley manual, skipping one step.

I do have a hoist in my garage, and I would have HATED this job a lot more laying on the ground. There are a lot of time consuming annoying steps to take such as:

supporting engine from above (although this can also be done from below if you want)
removing starter to get at torque converter bolts
removing cross member to get at water feed disconnects
definitely a few tricky bolts to get at
probably a few other things I am forgetting

Also that thing is not light, be careful when lowering. Attach to a trany jack, or something equivalent. I think it all comes down to your skill level and the tools you have available to decide if this is a job for you.

[Matt at Pelican Parts]

You're in luck, we just launched LN Engineering IMS bearing kits for 15% OFF

[ddruker]

Originally Posted by Roger at Pelican Parts

You're in luck, we just launched LN Engineering IMS bearing kits for 15% OFF

Thanks Roger - Question - The folks at LN will loan you the special tools to install a new bearing and also to install a new rear main seal, at no charge, when you buy the replacement bearing from them. Does Pelican offer a similar tool loaner program? I would love to buy from you and take advantage of the 15% off discount, but I also need the tools for both the RMS and the new IMS bearing...

[ddruker]

Thanks to all of your advice, I started on this project yesterday - I will be replacing the rear main seal, and evaluating the IMS bearing. I understand if I find either that I already have an LN bearing, or if I see a double row factory bearing, it's probably ok to leave the bearing as is.

I'm taking a short break now as my next step is the final removal step of unbolting the transmission from the engine.

So far everything has gone smoothly. I own a quickjack which is a godsend for this project. Specially for this project, I went to the local harbor freight and picked up an engine support bar, and a transmission scissors jack. Together both of these items cost about $200. I also needed a triple square 10mm bit to remove the funky bolt at the bottom of the transmission - I bought a set of these from Amazon for $15. The only other special tool I needed so far was a length of 5/16 stainless steel rod which I bought from amazon and cut down to 6" to use to lock the transfer case in place -> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FG1M80S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The hardest / least obvious parts of removing the tip so far are:

Removing the muffler. It's easy to see the bolts that attach the muffler mount to the back of the transmission, but I couldn't figure out how to get to the top bolt on the mount. The solution I ended up with was to remove the rear bumper cover, and then the rear bumper cross member. The bumper cross member and heat shield come off together, which exposes otherwise hidden bolts that attach the top of the muffler to the muffler mount from above. Once the muffler is out, you have easy access to the bolts that attach the mount to the transmission.

Removing the passenger side post cat oxygen sensor wiring harness. I just couldn't get the wiring harness clip off. So instead I removed the cat, and unscrewed the oxygen sensor from the cat and just left the sensor hanging. Later after I removed the cross-bar I had better access to get to the wiring harness connector to unclip it.

Removing the passenger side transmission mount - the top bolt is hidden way up in there behind the transmission oil cooler. It took just the right length of socket and extension to fit in the very small cavity you have to work with.

Getting off the transmission oil cooler hoses without destroying them. They were sure stuck on tight! I think I will just replace the short lengths of hose to be safe.

The other minor non-obvious part of the job so far was disconnecting the end of the transmission selector linkage. It turns out this is just a ball joint that you pop straight up and out. It wasn't documented in the service manual how to disconnect it.

I can already see a few maintenance items to do on the transmission while it is out - new drivers side output shaft seal for a tiny leak, new band for the drivers side inner CV joint which is also just barely leaking, may replace the transmission oil cooler o-rings just for fun, replace the transmission mounts while the whole thing is out.

[Starter986]

Originally Posted by ddruker

Thanks to all of your advice, I started on this project yesterday - I will be replacing the rear main seal, and evaluating the IMS bearing. I understand if I find either that I already have an LN bearing, or if I see a double row factory bearing, it's probably ok to leave the bearing as is.

I'm taking a short break now as my next step is the final removal step of unbolting the transmission from the engine.

So far everything has gone smoothly. I own a quickjack which is a godsend for this project. Specially for this project, I went to the local harbor freight and picked up an engine support bar, and a transmission scissors jack. Together both of these items cost about $200. I also needed a triple square 10mm bit to remove the funky bolt at the bottom of the transmission - I bought a set of these from Amazon for $15. The only other special tool I needed so far was a length of 5/16 stainless steel rod which I bought from amazon and cut down to 6" to use to lock the transfer case in place -> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FG1M80S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The hardest / least obvious parts of removing the tip so far are:

Removing the muffler. It's easy to see the bolts that attach the muffler mount to the back of the transmission, but I couldn't figure out how to get to the top bolt on the mount. The solution I ended up with was to remove the rear bumper cover, and then the rear bumper cross member. The bumper cross member and heat shield come off together, which exposes otherwise hidden bolts that attach the top of the muffler to the muffler mount from above. Once the muffler is out, you have easy access to the bolts that attach the mount to the transmission.

Removing the passenger side post cat oxygen sensor wiring harness. I just couldn't get the wiring harness clip off. So instead I removed the cat, and unscrewed the oxygen sensor from the cat and just left the sensor hanging. Later after I removed the cross-bar I had better access to get to the wiring harness connector to unclip it.

Removing the passenger side transmission mount - the top bolt is hidden way up in there behind the transmission oil cooler. It took just the right length of socket and extension to fit in the very small cavity you have to work with.

Getting off the transmission oil cooler hoses without destroying them. They were sure stuck on tight! I think I will just replace the short lengths of hose to be safe.

The other minor non-obvious part of the job so far was disconnecting the end of the transmission selector linkage. It turns out this is just a ball joint that you pop straight up and out. It wasn't documented in the service manual how to disconnect it.

I can already see a few maintenance items to do on the transmission while it is out - new drivers side output shaft seal for a tiny leak, new band for the drivers side inner CV joint which is also just barely leaking, may replace the transmission oil cooler o-rings just for fun, replace the transmission mounts while the whole thing is out.

I remain waiting for my "guy" to replace the inner shaft seal on my 98 Tip... and your preliminary notes are great. Thank you! Could you post some pictures of the work underway? I'd really appreciate it. Thank you.

[ddruker]

Woot! Got the transmission off without dropping it on the floor or on my head.



Pretty clear I have had a leaky rear main seal for a while. Looking at my IMS cover, it looks like I have the double row bearing - even though it's less likely to fail than the single row, since I have the motor open anyway I'll replace that too.



Getting the transmission off was very straight forward once I obtained a 10MM triple square bit. A pox on the engineers who decided to put that particular fastener in the transmission.

[ddruker]

I spent an hour or so yesterday removing the old rear main seal and the IMS bearing cover, and cleaning up the gunk that had accumulated on the transmission case. I also spent another hour cleaning all of the parts I had removed - tons of grunge from 20 years on the road.

Other "while I'm in there" jobs I did yesterday:

- I cleaned out and re-greased the axle CV joints
- I removed and replaced both transmission mount capsules (new part is Rein AVT0307P, you need two)
- I evaluated the drivers-side transmission output shaft. It was covered in gunk, but after a thorough cleaning it looks like it was probably not leaking after all.

Notes on the RMS and IMS:

It took several attempts drilling a small hole into the old rear main seal and using a small screw to pull the old seal out - it was stuck in there pretty good.

It probably took 20 minutes to remove the old IMS cover. I went very very slowly levering back and forth on both sides, using pieces of wood to level against to protect the engine block. It was a tedious process.

I did find a small nick on the outside edge of the crankshaft bore which I smoothed with 1000 grit sandpaper.

I also noted that the crankshaft bore is a tiny bit uneven, creating a small raised ridge, where the two halves of the engine case come together. I'm not going to mess with this.

I will do a more thorough cleaning of all mating surfaces with acetone or lacquer thinner once the new parts to finish up the job arrive.

More notes:

It was a bit difficult to get the small pieces of cooling hose off to disconnect the transmission from the cooling system. They were really stuck! I found that lifting the end of the hose and spraying in some silicon lubricant helped a ton. I'm planning to replace these segments when reinstalling - they are standard 18mm ID, 25mm OD radiator hose you can find on the internet and cut to length. Cohline is one good brand.

Mark the transmission to engine bolts when you remove them to make it easier to remember which goes in which hole - I marked them one to seven on their heads with a sharpie.

You will need to replace most of the last step bolts when doing this procedure - they are one time use fasteners.

- 8 flex plate to crankshaft mounting bolts - 99907309101 - these are different shorter bolts for the tip than for a manual transmission
- 4 engine casing bolts - 99938500401
- 3 new IMS cover bolts and and a new IMS cover nut which come with the LN Engineering Kit

You also need to obtain the following specialty chemical items - I bought on Amazon

- Loctite 29031 wicking green threadlock for the new IMS cover nut
- Elring Curil T sealing compound for the IMS bolts

I now have at least 10 labeled zip lock bags of parts I've removed - one bag for each step in the process.

Make sure you have plenty of blue locktite on hand for the re-assembly process.

I also bought a paint pen to mark the final location of the various fasteners.


Knock on wood so far everything is going well.

[JFP in PA]

Replace your AOS while the trans is out, it is a 5 min job at this point, a lot more effort when fully assembled.

[ddruker]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Replace your AOS while the trans is out, it is a 5 min job at this point, a lot more effort when fully assembled.

You are absolutely right - the AOS is just right there staring you in the face... But mine is less than a year old And yes it was a bear to get to, especially with my extra large hands.


If I hadn't done it already, I would also recommend tiptronic owners replace the passenger side differential output shaft seal as part of this job. This is another very easy fix, and from my research it looks like most of them eventually leak. Mine certainly did. With the transmission out, this is also a good time to refresh your differential oil - mine was really nasty when I redid the seal and the fluid last year.

[Gilles]

Knock on wood so far everything is going well.


[/QUOTE]

You may have to remove the bottom tensioner in order to center the IMS bearing shaft before you can install the IMS cover back again (with it's new o-ring..)

[ddruker]

One question for the brain trust today, and one more bit of learning to share.



First the learning -

My secondary air injection system had failed over the year, and I fixed it last year by putting in new valves, a new vacuum accumulator, and new fancy silicon vacuum tubing. I couldn't easily get to the tubing going to the tiptronic transmission cooler coolant cutoff valve, so I left that portion alone. With the transmission out, I just replaced the section of vacuum tubing going to the transmission today, and checked the valve for operation - and guess what - the valve was broken. It's a cheap plastic part. How it is supposed to work is that the valve is normally open, allowing coolant to flow to the transmission oil cooler. When the ECU decides to close the valve, it activates an electrical switch that applies vacuum to the transmission coolant cutoff valve, which will cause the valve to close. There is a cheap rubber diaphragm at the top of the valve that is leaking on mine - so it doesn't hold a vacuum and it will never close. Easy to diagnose by sucking on the vacuum line. Current Porsche Part number is 92857457304, about $90, the version made by OEM supplier Mechano Bundy is $30 under a slightly older part number 92857457303. So - when you have your transmission out for this procedure, check your coolant cutoff valve by sucking on the vacuum tube. If it leaks air, or if you can't get the actuator arm to move, replace the valve.





Now the question -

It's about where to apply the cam lock when I install the new LNE bearing. I have a 5 chain motor. Most of the directions I have read say to pull the lower green plugs on both cam covers.


As you are looking at the back of the motor, one of the ports to see the cam position is on your left, right in front of you, wide open and easy to access. The other port is in the front of the motor on the passenger side, tucked away behind the edge of the access panel - without a lot of access or room.



My question is - does it matter which of the two lower cams I lock? If it's ok to lock the cam on the back of the motor, that's just so much easier. Do I need to even bother removing the plug from the front cam cover? Or is it important to look at the front cam position to make sure it has not moved following the installation of the new IMS bearing? Or should I be locking the front one because Porsche engineers are just trying to mess with me?

[ddruker]

I received the IMS and RMS parts and tools from LN Engineering last night. Today I installed both the new IMS bearing and the new rear main seal. There are no instructions included with the LN Engineering kit - so I downloaded the instructions for the dual bearing replacement from their website, and I figured out the RMS installation from posts here.



I installed the cam lock on the left side lower cam on the back of the motor - I had to rotate the engine one more time after my first attempt to get the cam notches lining up properly. One extra spin got everything to line up correctly at TDC.



I really just had one wrinkle - it was cold in my garage this morning - probably 45 degrees - when I installed the new bearing, which was about 5 degrees after sitting in my freezer overnight. The new bearing didn't just fall into the hole - I am guessing the temperature differential wasn't enough for this - so I had to tap it in using the provided installation tool.



Here's the wrinkle - when I tapped the new bearing in, the IMS shaft moved around a bit - it wanted to sit in the upper right of its hole, not in the center of the opening.



To fix, I removed the third chain tensioner, which is just below the air conditioning compressor which is in turn behind the drivers seat. This gave me enough play that I could ease the shaft back into the center and get the new IMS cover to seal.



I had to run to home depot and get a short 32mm socket to get to the third chain tensioner - it's pretty tight to get to it. I couldn't easily get a wrench in the opening, and my existing 32mm socket is a tall one.



After this everything went smoothly. The RMS installation tool is pretty self explanatory - clean the crank and the bore with lacquer thinner or acetone, mount the new seal with it's blue plastic holder on the lower section of the pressing tool, then bolt the lower section to the crank face, and then install the top pusher section on top - then turning the set screw pulls the upper section in, eventually pushing the new seal into it's opening. Crank until the tool bottoms out, and the top of the seal ends up 13mm below the crankshaft face.



The rest of the process for buttoning up the engine is clearly explained in the LN Engineering instructions and went without drama.



I also replaced all four of the rear engine casing bolts with new encapsulated bolts as called for in the service manual.


Last step before calling it a day was to remount the flex plate. Remember to get all new bolts for this one, use q-tip to get some blue locktite into the mounting holes, and follow the two step torque instructions in the service manual.



Once my 3 foot chunk of 18mm id x 25mm od coolant tubing for the transmission oil cooler arrives, I can cut out four pieces to replace the existing short connector sections of rubber hose on the tip, and then I can move on to reinstalling the transmission. Once that's done, getting back on the road is all downhill.

[ddruker]

Oh and one more bit of information - I was pleased to notice on my invoice that LN Engineering does not currently charge sales tax for out of state orders made on their website. That works out to about a 10% discount for those of us in the people's republic of California... In addition to no cost specialized tool loaning, plus new cam covers and timing chain tensioner seals included at no extra charge, I'm a happy client.



My only complaint is that LN only wants to honor their product warranty if you get their products installed by a shop. I'm pretty sure I'm more careful and do a better job than many shops do...

[ddruker]

I just returned from Spring break, and yesterday I started putting the Boxster back together. With one exception, it's been a very smooth process.

He is the one wrinkle I hit that I will try to attack today.

When you remove the transmission, you lock the engine and the transmission in place using steel posts. There are three holes in the crankshaft pulley separated by 120 degrees you use to do this, plus a single hole in the top of the torque converter housing.

When you replace the IMS bearing, you remove the locking pin from the crankshaft pulley, rotate the crankshaft to TDC and then re-lock the engine at TDC using the teardrop shaped hole in the crankshaft pulley instead of one of the three symmetrical 120 degree holes.

This of course puts the crankshaft in a different position than it was in when you locked it in place with the three holes you used to remove the transmission, so the bolt holes in the flex plate are no longer aligned with the bolt holes in the torque converter.

There isn't an explicit instruction in the service manual to return the engine to the correct "3 hole" installation position once you are done replacing the IMS bearing.

I had actually thought about this, but I had assumed that since this wasn't specified in the manual, once I re-attached the transmission, I would be able to rotate the engine independently from the transmission, to get the flex plate back into the installation position and the holes perfectly lined up, since the flex plate would not be bolted onto the torque converter. WRONG! The friction fit between the torque converter and the flex plate is really strong. With the torque converter locked, the crankshaft won't budge, even with a lot of pressure on the crank pulley bolt.

This morning, I will remove enough components to be able to re-separate the transmission from the motor by an eight of an inch or so, which should allow me to get the engine back into the re-installation position and get the flex plate to torque converter bolt holes lined up again.

Question to those who have done this before - when you locked the crankshaft in place using the 120 degree holes, were the bolt holes in the torque converter and flex plate perfectly lined up for you when you reattached your transmission? It seems to me there is a little bit of wiggle room in the setup - how did you get the bolt holes to line up if they were not perfect?