IMS and RMS with Tiptronic

[ddruker]

On my 2001 Boxster S, I'm just starting to see a new small oil leak - a few drops after each drive - coming from the area where the engine and the transmission mate together, just above the main crossbar where the front of the triangle pan and the retention cable are also located.



I spoke with my independent Porsche specialist (Reitmeirs Werkstat in Los Altos, CA) and they spec the job at about 16 hours, totaling $3,400 including an LN engineering bearing. That's about 30% of what the Boxster is worth!



There are not very many posts on this forum from folks with a Tiptronic doing the IMS and RMS jobs themselves, presumably because it's a pain to remove and replace the tip, and from a cost perspective I was not looking forward to having to purchase $500+ in special tools to take on both of these jobs.



I looked at the LN engineering website today, and was pleased to see they now offer loaner tools for free - they lend out the tools for both the IMR and RMS replacement at no charge. Very very smart of them!



The availability of free loaner tools is swinging me in the direction of doing the job myself - I also have a quickjack which should help, and I have the shop manual as well.



So my question to this most wise group is - is removing the tiptronic a reasonable project for an experienced home wrencher? Are there any additional special tools that I must figure out how to obtain? What am I likely to break when I remove the tip, and is there anything else you would recommend I replace or repair while I have the transmission out? Any other stuff I should look out for while I'm doing the job?



Just seeking your wisdom on whether it's reasonable or stupid to take this job on in my home garage.

[JFP in PA]

First of all, let me say that anyone that does IMS bearing retrofits for a living charges more to do it when the transmission is a Tip, and they do it for valid reason: It is a lot more work.

Along with all the IMS tooling, you will need a torque converter retaining pin, which is just a 5/16 metal rod with a handle on it. And do not even think about leaving the torque convert bolted to the flywheel and removing the trans, that is asking for more grief than you can imagine.

[solo118]

I got quoted 6k plus tax including IMS and water pump/thermostat. So you might not have a horrible deal if you can get him down to 3k!

[Alan Mackew]

I had my ims ,rear main and routine service done by a local independent, fitted Ln engineering direct oil feed cost was $4,500 au $ . The car is 2003 2.7 tip with 70.000 kms, they removed the engine and transmission as a unit, original ims was good, but happy with new spense of security now.

[MYRX]

Both were replaced in my 2000 S in 2019 by a shop in Atlanta. No where near the cost you guys are quoting. Car has been running perfect since the work was performed. The RMS was leaking and when repaired I had the IMS replaced as well. Also now use the spin on oil filter adaptor from LN engineering. Great improvement.

[berni29]

Hi

An experienced home wrencher can remove and refit the Tip transmission. I did it last year to check the IMS. I also did a fluid change, AOS, Trans/Gearbox mounts and some brake pipes etc while I was there. Its heavy. I put mine on an engine stand, which aided getting all the fluid out etc. Follow the guides carefully and make sure you remove the converter with the gearbox.

The sump on my Tip was rusty so I needed a new one, that was the only real surprise.

Its quite a lot more work than a manual.

All the best

Berni

[Brad604]

Hello. I just removed my Tiptronic on my 2000 S TODAY!! I am a pretty experienced backyard mechanic and found this job definitely a little teadius and a little tricky. I was unable to find much info online on how to do it, I mostly watched Burns's car Youtube vids for help but his was a manual not a Tip. I then followed the guide in the Bentley manual, skipping one step.

I do have a hoist in my garage, and I would have HATED this job a lot more laying on the ground. There are a lot of time consuming annoying steps to take such as:

supporting engine from above (although this can also be done from below if you want)
removing starter to get at torque converter bolts
removing cross member to get at water feed disconnects
definitely a few tricky bolts to get at
probably a few other things I am forgetting

Also that thing is not light, be careful when lowering. Attach to a trany jack, or something equivalent. I think it all comes down to your skill level and the tools you have available to decide if this is a job for you.

[Matt at Pelican Parts]

You're in luck, we just launched LN Engineering IMS bearing kits for 15% OFF

[ddruker]

Originally Posted by Roger at Pelican Parts

You're in luck, we just launched LN Engineering IMS bearing kits for 15% OFF

Thanks Roger - Question - The folks at LN will loan you the special tools to install a new bearing and also to install a new rear main seal, at no charge, when you buy the replacement bearing from them. Does Pelican offer a similar tool loaner program? I would love to buy from you and take advantage of the 15% off discount, but I also need the tools for both the RMS and the new IMS bearing...

[ddruker]

Thanks to all of your advice, I started on this project yesterday - I will be replacing the rear main seal, and evaluating the IMS bearing. I understand if I find either that I already have an LN bearing, or if I see a double row factory bearing, it's probably ok to leave the bearing as is.

I'm taking a short break now as my next step is the final removal step of unbolting the transmission from the engine.

So far everything has gone smoothly. I own a quickjack which is a godsend for this project. Specially for this project, I went to the local harbor freight and picked up an engine support bar, and a transmission scissors jack. Together both of these items cost about $200. I also needed a triple square 10mm bit to remove the funky bolt at the bottom of the transmission - I bought a set of these from Amazon for $15. The only other special tool I needed so far was a length of 5/16 stainless steel rod which I bought from amazon and cut down to 6" to use to lock the transfer case in place -> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FG1M80S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The hardest / least obvious parts of removing the tip so far are:

Removing the muffler. It's easy to see the bolts that attach the muffler mount to the back of the transmission, but I couldn't figure out how to get to the top bolt on the mount. The solution I ended up with was to remove the rear bumper cover, and then the rear bumper cross member. The bumper cross member and heat shield come off together, which exposes otherwise hidden bolts that attach the top of the muffler to the muffler mount from above. Once the muffler is out, you have easy access to the bolts that attach the mount to the transmission.

Removing the passenger side post cat oxygen sensor wiring harness. I just couldn't get the wiring harness clip off. So instead I removed the cat, and unscrewed the oxygen sensor from the cat and just left the sensor hanging. Later after I removed the cross-bar I had better access to get to the wiring harness connector to unclip it.

Removing the passenger side transmission mount - the top bolt is hidden way up in there behind the transmission oil cooler. It took just the right length of socket and extension to fit in the very small cavity you have to work with.

Getting off the transmission oil cooler hoses without destroying them. They were sure stuck on tight! I think I will just replace the short lengths of hose to be safe.

The other minor non-obvious part of the job so far was disconnecting the end of the transmission selector linkage. It turns out this is just a ball joint that you pop straight up and out. It wasn't documented in the service manual how to disconnect it.

I can already see a few maintenance items to do on the transmission while it is out - new drivers side output shaft seal for a tiny leak, new band for the drivers side inner CV joint which is also just barely leaking, may replace the transmission oil cooler o-rings just for fun, replace the transmission mounts while the whole thing is out.

[Starter986]

Originally Posted by ddruker

Thanks to all of your advice, I started on this project yesterday - I will be replacing the rear main seal, and evaluating the IMS bearing. I understand if I find either that I already have an LN bearing, or if I see a double row factory bearing, it's probably ok to leave the bearing as is.

I'm taking a short break now as my next step is the final removal step of unbolting the transmission from the engine.

So far everything has gone smoothly. I own a quickjack which is a godsend for this project. Specially for this project, I went to the local harbor freight and picked up an engine support bar, and a transmission scissors jack. Together both of these items cost about $200. I also needed a triple square 10mm bit to remove the funky bolt at the bottom of the transmission - I bought a set of these from Amazon for $15. The only other special tool I needed so far was a length of 5/16 stainless steel rod which I bought from amazon and cut down to 6" to use to lock the transfer case in place -> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FG1M80S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The hardest / least obvious parts of removing the tip so far are:

Removing the muffler. It's easy to see the bolts that attach the muffler mount to the back of the transmission, but I couldn't figure out how to get to the top bolt on the mount. The solution I ended up with was to remove the rear bumper cover, and then the rear bumper cross member. The bumper cross member and heat shield come off together, which exposes otherwise hidden bolts that attach the top of the muffler to the muffler mount from above. Once the muffler is out, you have easy access to the bolts that attach the mount to the transmission.

Removing the passenger side post cat oxygen sensor wiring harness. I just couldn't get the wiring harness clip off. So instead I removed the cat, and unscrewed the oxygen sensor from the cat and just left the sensor hanging. Later after I removed the cross-bar I had better access to get to the wiring harness connector to unclip it.

Removing the passenger side transmission mount - the top bolt is hidden way up in there behind the transmission oil cooler. It took just the right length of socket and extension to fit in the very small cavity you have to work with.

Getting off the transmission oil cooler hoses without destroying them. They were sure stuck on tight! I think I will just replace the short lengths of hose to be safe.

The other minor non-obvious part of the job so far was disconnecting the end of the transmission selector linkage. It turns out this is just a ball joint that you pop straight up and out. It wasn't documented in the service manual how to disconnect it.

I can already see a few maintenance items to do on the transmission while it is out - new drivers side output shaft seal for a tiny leak, new band for the drivers side inner CV joint which is also just barely leaking, may replace the transmission oil cooler o-rings just for fun, replace the transmission mounts while the whole thing is out.

I remain waiting for my "guy" to replace the inner shaft seal on my 98 Tip... and your preliminary notes are great. Thank you! Could you post some pictures of the work underway? I'd really appreciate it. Thank you.

[ddruker]

Woot! Got the transmission off without dropping it on the floor or on my head.



Pretty clear I have had a leaky rear main seal for a while. Looking at my IMS cover, it looks like I have the double row bearing - even though it's less likely to fail than the single row, since I have the motor open anyway I'll replace that too.



Getting the transmission off was very straight forward once I obtained a 10MM triple square bit. A pox on the engineers who decided to put that particular fastener in the transmission.

[JFP in PA]

Replace your AOS while the trans is out, it is a 5 min job at this point, a lot more effort when fully assembled.

[ddruker]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Replace your AOS while the trans is out, it is a 5 min job at this point, a lot more effort when fully assembled.

You are absolutely right - the AOS is just right there staring you in the face... But mine is less than a year old And yes it was a bear to get to, especially with my extra large hands.


If I hadn't done it already, I would also recommend tiptronic owners replace the passenger side differential output shaft seal as part of this job. This is another very easy fix, and from my research it looks like most of them eventually leak. Mine certainly did. With the transmission out, this is also a good time to refresh your differential oil - mine was really nasty when I redid the seal and the fluid last year.

[piper6909]

This is interesting for me as I've never separated these engines and trannies, but may eventually. I know there are 3 locking positions on the crank pulley so you can lock the engine in position to remove the TC bolts. I wasn't aware, however, that you lock the TC too. Did I read that correct?

With all the engines I've replaced, the TC can spin freely so you can align the bolt holes.

[JFP in PA]

First of all, once you lock the front pulley at TDC, do not even think about removing the pin and rotating the engine. The correct way to unbolt the TC is to do that BEFORE you lock the engine at TDC, NOT AFTERWARDS. Once the IMS retrofit is complete and the engine is back together, you can install the trans with the TC on it and rotate the engine by hand to get the bolt holes to line up. It is all a matter of sequence.��

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

First of all, once you lock the front pulley at TDC, do not even think about removing the pin and rotating the engine. The correct way to unbolt the TC is to do that BEFORE you lock the engine at TDC, NOT AFTERWARDS. Once the IMS retrofit is complete and the engine is back together, you can install the trans with the TC on it and rotate the engine by hand to get the bolt holes to line up. It is all a matter of sequence.��

I think he's got that, he's trying to reinstall the tranny after the IMS and RMS has been done. What I can't understand is why the TC is locked up. Do you lock the TC when removing the tranny? Why isn't it spinning for him, unless it's not seated all the way in the tranny and putting too much pressure on the flex plate.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by piper6909

I think he's got that, he's trying to reinstall the tranny after the IMS and RMS has been done. What I can't understand is why the TC is locked up. Do you lock the TC when removing the tranny? Why isn't it spinning for him, unless it's not seated all the way in the tranny and putting too much pressure on the flex plate.

One reason would be the converter has moved forward and out of the front pump.

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

One reason would be the converter has moved forward and out of the front pump.

That's what I was wondering. It happened to me once doing a Subie. Turning the TC to realign the splines allowed me to push it back in. Not sure if that applies to the Porsche Tip.

[ddruker]

Yes you have it correct. Part of the procedure is to lock the transfer case in position before you separate the transmission from the engine. And keep it locked until you rebolt the transfer case to the flex plate after reinstalling the transmission.

As you said, after I reinstalled the transmission, I expected to be able to turn the motor with the transfer case still locked. I expected the flex plate to be able to turn against the locked transfer case. It does not, it appears the be a very strong friction fit between the two. I can get it to move a bit, but it takes much more force than I car to impose on my crank bolt for the roughly 30 degrees I need to rotate the crank.

I did find one reference on the internet to this happening to someone else, and his solution was to resplit the transmission from the engine by an eight of an inch and then move the crank and flex plate into the proper position.

Also note there are four holes in the crank pulley - three corresponding with the locations of the flex plate mounting bolts when they are in the starter hole area and one representing tdc.