Afraid of the answer.....

[thstone]

Originally Posted by robdelorenzo

I
What do I do?
Any advice?

You mentioned a shop in Lawndale so I assume that you live somewhere in the South Bay. Thus, I'd highly suggest taking the car to Callas Rennsport in Torrance and they will get it working in no time. This may cost you a little bit but it will be well worth the money to get some peace of mind.

[robdelorenzo]

Yes, I do live in the south bay.
I have been going to Rob Wessels at Dutch Treat.
He's a good guy and has been straight with me all along.
A second opinion can never hurt, though.

911 Monty, I'm going to go outside and look at the car and shoot some photos for you.
Last night when I had the rear end up in the air (insert bad jokes here) I crawled under the car and saw the water coming out of the end of the drain hose from the coolant tank. That was the only place that is leaking.

I will report back shortly and yes it's 2 billion degrees here, too.
It's been like this for about a week now, but summer is always in Sept-Oct in Socal.

[robdelorenzo]

Yes, 911Monty.
There is NO DOUBT that is the hose that is leaking.
I saw it with my own eyes last night.


So I will now go and look through the drain hole and see what's going on.

[911monty]

Ok. Good. Is that coolant leaking from the seam?

[robdelorenzo]

I need to go check that next and will report back.

[robdelorenzo]

ok. Thanks for your patience. Here are a few photos and what I just did this afternoon and what happened:









I had the rear of the car lifted overnight with the bleeder valve open. I started the car and ran it until the cooling fans came on. I looked in the drain hole and did not see any fluid moving, but I did stick a dry screwdriver in it and it came out wet.

I do not see any obvious cracks or leaks in or around the coolant tank.
It did start leaking from the overflow as soon as I started the car.
I felt the hose coming from the engine and it was warm. The hose coming from the thermostat was not, even once the cooling fans came on. If the thermostat is stuck closed would this cause the coolant in the engine to heat up enough to where it then is spit back into the overflow? It's a low temp thermostat from Pelican that was put in about 3 months ago that may have been damaged by the meltdown. What would the symptoms be? The temp gauge rises to 180 or so very rapidly and didn't used to do that before the meltdown. If the water pump impeller is melted or missing, would I have these same symptoms as well?

What I simply have not understood yet is why it starts dumping coolant from the overflow as soon as I start the engine from dead cold. In this case it sat all evening.
The new oil does have it purring as it should, so now I just need to understand what's needed to keep it cool.

I appreciate the help. It's not Tuesday yet and I really believe that with your help and experience I can get to the culprit logically and without going broke?

Thank you!

[911monty]

Wow. Good job hanging in there! What a mystery. To answer your question regarding the cooling system hoses, well this is where a bunch of engineers got together and decided to redesign the wheel. So unlike american iron, the thermostat on these engines controls the coolant as it returns from the radiators not to the radiators. So it should be cooler than the coolant from the engine block which is the hot side to the radiators. Confused? Yeah they also designed the IMSB. I think their reason was so that coolant is always circulating through the oil cooler.

The coolant leaking from the overflow is still a question, unbelievable. The last thing I can suggest is this. In your pictures of the hoses on the coolant tank the one with no clamp is the drain hose. Can you remove it preferably at the manifold connection so you can put it in a container? Then start your engine and observe for leak? It has to have a source. I do not believe in magic.

[robdelorenzo]

I can certainly try that.
I don't know where it goes from the other side of the firewall.
It's not the one that goes into the top of the oil cooler, is it?
I'll look for a diagram now before I try that.
I'll be standing by in the mean time.
This car is a Rubik's Cube.
I don't believe in magic either, gremlins are another story though.

[911monty]

Well it's certainly not supposed to be the hose from the top of the oil cooler, but at this point....... If you look at your picture you see the hose with no clamp. It has a short hose that goes to the manifold at the front of the trunk where they pass into the engine compartment.

[robdelorenzo]

Ok. I think I got it. Will go unplug it and put it into a container and start engine and see what happens.

[robdelorenzo]

I am in over my head at this point.

From what I can tell that overflow drain line comes right out of the coolant tank.
The hose that the quick disconnect blew out on comes from the top of the oil cooler and goes into the tank. I don't know where the other hose from the tank that goes from the inside of the firewall goes to. (I don't have a Bentley and can't find a decent diagram online) And I can't get my hands in there, which is why I had the mechanic install that tank in the first place!

I tried plugging up the overflow hose to make sure that nothing else is leaking.
Nothing else is.
It's only coming from that overflow hose as seen in the photo: (not my actual photo, but the exact same thing)



The leaking apparently has nothing to do with temperature. It starts as soon as I start the car. It only gets worse as the engine heats up.

If this hose does indeed go straight from the coolant tank, how is this possible?

I don't see any lowering of the level in the coolant tank as it's happening or any movement of the fluid. Granted it's a small amount of leakage, but it has to be coming from somewhere, right? Is that tank under any pressure when the car is first started?

I'm ready to call the junk man again I am so frustrated.

I may end up doing that anyway, as I don't know if I'm well on my way down that slippery slope to a money pit.

I'm also no mechanic. I can understand principles and do basic stuff, but I have zero clue what's going on here.

Does anyone have any ideas what's going on or been through this before?

Thanks!

[JFP in PA]

OK, first of all, calm down. No, the tank is not under pressure when the car is cold. But I have some concerns that unless the lines that broke in the first place were correctly reconnected, you have been chasing your tail. If memory serves, you broke the line leading off the top of the oil cooler; if that line was not correctly reconnected to the tank, coolant is going to flow all over the place as soon as the car is started.

I would most strongly recommend you get your cooling system pressure tested. That will immediately tell you if it is tight or not; I suspect it is not.

[robdelorenzo]

Thanks JFP.

You are correct, the quick disconnect on the line from the top of the oil cooler melted and blew.

I'm taking deep breaths.....

[JFP in PA]

A system pressure test takes about 5 min to do, and will immediately tell you where you are. It does require a special tool and the correct adaptor to attach to your tank (the adaptor is for a VW), but will immediately tell you if your cooling system is closed up or open to the atmosphere. I suspect that is where you are.

[911monty]

Actually this may be a good thing and I was half expecting this to happen.Remember the comment about the hose from the oil cooler? If the leak had been from the tank it would have meant replacing the tank. This would have cost several hundred dollars. I suspect that somehow the hose which blew apart may be connected to the wrong hose, possibly the drain hose. This might only require switching some hoses. Yes I know the hoses are different diameters and this should be unlikely but at this point anything is suspect and needs to be checked and confirmed.
You may have to do some feeling by hand or use a scope camera to confirm.
There are 3 hoses from the manifold to the tank. The hose in your pic on the left should attach to the top nipple of the manifold. This is the smallest diameter hose. This is the connection from the top of the oil cooler that the fitting broke on and should go to the purge valve. Of course the bottom hose on the manifold should be the drain hose.
Please follow the hose from the oil cooler, thru the broken fitting and to the top connection of the manifold.
It is probably easiest to determine that the drain hose goes to the bottom fitting. I believe you can see this from below.

I see JFP beat me to it while I was typing. Thanks!

[911monty]

Here is a picture of the manifold from inside the engine compartment.

The small diameter hose at the top is the oil cooler connection. The middle I believe is the vent from the radiators (not sure since I've never followed it). The lower that you can see just below the bend in the metal piping from the middle hose is the drain hose. Hope this helps.




And yes a pressure test would of course been the proper thing to do, but hell you've still got a full day and may resolve this yet!

[robdelorenzo]

I like this theory a lot and it's inexpensive!

I'm done for tonight, though.

Will be checking this board but not going to try any more work until tomorrow.

Thanks guys.

[911monty]

FYI The way I captured that image of the manifold was by using a camera held down behind the AOS, I think I had to move the shift cables out of the way until I found the correct angle.

[robdelorenzo]

The other thing I am going to try is disconnecting the quick release on the hose coming from the top of the oil cooler and then starting the car.

I'm going to need to flush and change the coolant anyway at this point.

This theory makes a lot of sense because somehow the overflow hose is being fed a steady stream of coolant.

I wonder what the flow rate from that hose from the oil cooler should be?

Also I'm going to see about procuring a pressure tester.

Inspector Clouseau will resume his work tomorrow.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by robdelorenzo

The other thing I am going to try is disconnecting the quick release on the hose coming from the top of the oil cooler and then starting the car.

I'm going to need to flush and change the coolant anyway at this point.

This theory makes a lot of sense because somehow the overflow hose is being fed a steady stream of coolant.

I wonder what the flow rate from that hose from the oil cooler should be?

Also I'm going to see about procuring a pressure tester.

Inspector Clouseau will resume his work tomorrow.

Check your local auto parts stores, one may either rent or loan the tool.