718 sales poor

[Pominoz]

Originally Posted by cas951

I've had the opportunity to drive the 718 S a few times. Not just a road test but at a autocross track and at the Porsche Experience center in LA. The first was at a Porsche 718 playground event at Berkeley, Ca in Aug last year. I managed to be a passenger with a factory driver as well as drive several laps around the autocross track. I'm no aportscar writer and I do lack the ability to describe how the car handles but I can tell you that it's everything we've all read and then some. The power and torque output come to mind. The biggest disappointment is the exhaust tone. PSE or no PSE if you didn't see yourself going in to the Boxster you would have thought you were in a Subaru. This was a huge disappointment for me. In my opinion new buyers won't miss this missing link but previous owners will be disappointed. The 718's ran the tracks all day long and didn't see one break down. Seems to be very reliable.

At the Porsche Experience center one thing i noticed right away is the power of the 718 S. The 718 S actually kept up with the 911 on the straights and caught up quickly by the first turn. By the second lap he was asked to let me pass him. I tried to do the same on a 911 turbo. Well, you know the outcome on that one but I did manage to catch up to it towards several turns later.

I agree, I think previous owners are where they are suffering with the 718. Even my lowly 986 2.7 arguably has all the performance you need on the road, It's about the overall experience and grin factor, the sound a flat 6 makes is good for the soul. I'm in a Porsche club, and nobody in the club has bought a 718 yet, or intends to as far a I know. In Australia at least, I think the 718 is easily the most expensive 4 cylinder car you can buy, It's just not a premium device, engine wise. It will be interesting to see what the residuals are when people start to sell them used.

[Giller]

Originally Posted by Pominoz

It's just not a premium device, engine wise.

I think many owners in that Porsche club you mention would highly disagree! Porsche has a very strong history when it comes to 4 cylinder engines.

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/technology/porsche-four-cylinder-flat-engine-history-12270.html

[Pominoz]

Originally Posted by Giller

I think many owners in that Porsche club you mention would highly disagree! Porsche has a very strong history when it comes to 4 cylinder engines.

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/technology/porsche-four-cylinder-flat-engine-history-12270.html

This is my club, I've been a member for two years and know the other Boxster/Cayman owners well. I don't know anyone who has a 718 or intends to in the future, they're keeping their 981s rather than trading in.

http://www.pcv.com.au

[Giller]

Originally Posted by Pominoz

This is my club, I've been a member for two years and know the other Boxster/Cayman owners well. I don't know anyone who has a 718 or intends to in the future, they're keeping their 981s rather than trading in.

http://www.pcv.com.au

Why? Because they can't handle the extra power? They don't want to save a couple bucks in gas? They don't want to drop their insurance a bit?

Wow, this whole argument that the 4 cylinder engine is somehow going to hurt Porsche is silly. This feels like we are going back in time - you do know all Porsche's now have water cooled engines, right? Blasphemy!

[Pominoz]

Originally Posted by Giller

Why? Because they can't handle the extra power? They don't want to save a couple bucks in gas? They don't want to drop their insurance a bit?

Wow, this whole argument that the 4 cylinder engine is somehow going to hurt Porsche is silly. This feels like we are going back in time - you do know all Porsche's now have water cooled engines, right? Blasphemy!

The main reason is that it sounds rubbish compared to the 981. Not everyone cares about the sound, but a lot seem to. If the engine is the future, why not put it in the 911 as well?

This guy sums it up.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CKvMwsyhCnc

[BIGJake111]

Originally Posted by Pominoz

I think the 718 is easily the most expensive 4 cylinder car you can buy, It's just not a premium device, engine wise. It will be interesting to see what the residuals are when people start to sell them used.

This is by far the cars biggest weakness. The 968 was a very good 4 cylinder, but no one wanted to pay that much for one. When I think 4 cylinder at most I think of my mothers Camry or of domestic economy cars, saturns and etc.

You can sell a 718 still because it is fast and stylish, but you can't expect a 4 cylinder motor to not devalue the car regardless of speed improvements.

I want one pretty bad and it makes the 981 look ugly by comparison in many aspects, (at this point I think 986 and 718 are the purest exterior designs) however I wouldn't pay a premium over a 981 gts to get a car that reminds me more of an Audi TT at most rather than a pocket Carrera gt.

[Giller]

Originally Posted by BIGJake111

This is by far the cars biggest weakness. The 968 was a very good 4 cylinder, but no one wanted to pay that much for one. When I think 4 cylinder at most I think of my mothers Camry or of domestic economy cars, saturns and etc.

You can sell a 718 still because it is fast and stylish, but you can't expect a 4 cylinder motor to not devalue the car regardless of speed improvements.

I want one pretty bad and it makes the 981 look ugly by comparison in many aspects, (at this point I think 986 and 718 are the purest exterior designs) however I wouldn't pay a premium over a 981 gts to get a car that reminds me more of an Audi TT at most rather than a pocket Carrera gt.

BMW M2 - premium sport coupe - 4 cylinder engine. Mercedes AMG Cl45 - 4 cylinder engine. Alfa Romeo 4C - 4 cylinder engine. Yeah, those are some low-end, dowdy vehicles!

Seriously people, a 4-cylinder will devalue it? Yeah, just like water-cooled has devalued all those cars.....or power steering, or any number of 'silly' technological advances.

[BIGJake111]

Originally Posted by Giller

BMW M2 - premium sport coupe - 4 cylinder engine. Mercedes AMG Cl45 - 4 cylinder engine. Alfa Romeo 4C - 4 cylinder engine. Yeah, those are some low-end, dowdy vehicles!



Seriously people, a 4-cylinder will devalue it? Yeah, just like water-cooled has devalued all those cars.....or power steering, or any number of 'silly' technological advances.

How much of a sales success are these cars?

Yes the introduction of the new alpine and 4c and lotus proves small sports cars with a 4 can be great... but great sellers....?

[Giller]

Originally Posted by BIGJake111

How much of a sales success are these cars?

Yes the introduction of the new alpine and 4c and lotus proves small sports cars with a 4 can be great... but great sellers....?

What do you define 'success' by? These aren't Fords, they aren't going to fly off the shelf. But you weren't arguing success, you were arguing no one would take a 4 cylinder engine seriously. That is just wrong.

So far, Porsche is quite happy with the 718 sales - and expectations when the nicer weather rolls in we will see an uptick.

These are high end sports cars that appeal to a limited market. They aren't going to sell hundreds of thousands of these a year....

[BIGJake111]

Originally Posted by Giller

What do you define 'success' by? These aren't Fords, they aren't going to fly off the shelf. But you weren't arguing success, you were arguing no one would take a 4 cylinder engine seriously. That is just wrong.



So far, Porsche is quite happy with the 718 sales - and expectations when the nicer weather rolls in we will see an uptick.



These are high end sports cars that appeal to a limited market. They aren't going to sell hundreds of thousands of these a year....

I think it's a good car, I think it has a lot of merit. But let's be honest without the badge it would fail. It's worth less to most consumers, whatever improvements have been made don't outweigh the loss of the 6. It may still do well but for the same price as the last car it WILL sell less.... all else held equal of course.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by BIGJake111

whatever improvements have been made don't outweigh the loss of the 6. It may still do well but for the same price as the last car it WILL sell less.... all else held equal of course.

I think it will be the other way. The 718 will outsell all flat 6 Boxsters. And when they dump manual transmission it will sell as if it were only a paddle shift car from the start. The people who can buy these cars new, for the most part, are buying the badge status not the badge heritage.. In other words they don't know Steve McQueen from Steve Harvey.
But on the flip side unless its a limited production engine, and this is true of any water cooled Porsche, the car's depreciation will be severe. You'll be able to get a 718 cheap sooner than it took to buy a 986/987 cheap.