I'll just leave this right here......

[Timco]

The mid-engine Chevrolet Corvette has been caught once again, this time testing alongside its high-performance front-engine stablemate, the ZR1. We’ve seen both upcoming cars before, but this is the first time we’ve seen them together. These are also the best shots we’ve seen so far of the mid-engine ‘Vette.

Spied! Mid-Engine Chevrolet Corvette Caught Winter Testing With ZR1 - Motor Trend

[Giller]

Unfortunately, American build quality still leaves something to be desired, so while this will have loads of power, and might actually go round a corner, still no match for its German sports car competition.

[bwdz]

These mags have the worst spies. I have lived in the Detroit metro area most of my life and have been to the Milford proving grounds and the Ford Rotunda track and have been for a spirited spin on the small track at the Chrysler tech center etc.. These are not some top secret facilities and if you know a few of the prototype shops around here they are even less secret. I have even drove some cars 3 years before they came out at the auto show. These are GM leaked photos as anyone who actually wanted to see that car or its components already would be able to.

[BIGJake111]

Originally Posted by Giller

Unfortunately, American build quality still leaves something to be desired, so while this will have loads of power, and might actually go round a corner, still no match for its German sports car competition.

Better get used to it, grand emperor supreme doesn't like cars built elsewhere. All us Porsche folks may have to learn to love a corvette if we want something European, at least without a huge tax, in a few years.

[thstone]

Originally Posted by BIGJake111

Better get used to it, grand emperor supreme doesn't like cars built elsewhere. All us Porsche folks may have to learn to love a corvette if we want something European, at least without a huge tax, in a few years.

Before this gets out of hand, let's keep politics out of this Forum. Far too many of the other car Forum's have turned into political crap-fests. Let's not do the same.

Please, stay on topic - What do you think of the mid-engined Corvette?

[thstone]

In regards to the mid-engined Corvette, I think that it will be underwhelming.

GM, like Porsche and the 911, has had 50 years to evolve and perfect the Corvette's front-engine configuration. I doubt that they have the engineering talent to create a world-class mid-engined sports car straight out of the box. Maybe they'll prove me wrong?

On the other hand, Porsche has had a 20-year head start designing mid-engined sports cars with the Boxster/Cayman and the mid-engined 911 is already designed and being tested: http://986forum.com/forums/zuffenhausen-lounge-happy-hour-after-17-00-somewhere/65197-pics-911rsr-mid-engine.html

[BIGJake111]

Originally Posted by thstone

Before this gets out of hand, let's keep politics out of this Forum. Far too many of the other Forum's have turned into political crap-fests. Let's not do the same.



Please, stay on topic - What do you think of the mid-engined Corvette?

I think it'll be okay if it's all we can buy. I'd rather a gt350 though.

Besides I never said I don't or do like the guy, just facing the facts of how some policy may affect the automotive world and that's relevant and capable of being discussed without too much underwear knotting.

[thstone]

Originally Posted by BIGJake111

I think it'll be okay if it's all we can buy. I'd rather a gt350 though.

Besides I never said I don't or do like the guy, just facing the facts of how some policy may affect the automotive world and that's relevant and capable of being discussed without too much underwear knotting.

I hear you Jake, but it doesn't take much to start a riot these days.

And remember, one of the worst blow-ups that we've ever had on this forum started with what the author thought to be an innocent post about a cat...

[Boxtaboy]

I think it's a good thing. GM brings great perf/power/price packages in their Corvette, and pushing the bar higher is always good for competition. Besides, just because it's a US firm doesn't mean it can't hire engineers that used to work for other car companies to get the expertise they need to make a great sports car. I welcome it, and hope it turns out to be a great mid-engined sports car. As for build quality, a lot of German cars are already built in the US by Americans. I don't see why they can't make a great car.

[bwdz]

Originally Posted by thstone

In regards to the mid-engined Corvette, I think that it will be underwhelming.

GM, like Porsche and the 911, has had 50 years to evolve and perfect the Corvette's front-engine configuration. I doubt that they have the engineering talent to create a world-class mid-engined sports car straight out of the box. Maybe they'll prove me wrong?

On the other hand, Porsche has had a 20-year head start with the Boxster/Cayman and the mid-engined 911 is already designed and being tested: http://986forum.com/forums/zuffenhausen-lounge-happy-hour-after-17-00-somewhere/65197-pics-911rsr-mid-engine.html

Only argument against that would be the Corvair. It was far superior to the VWs of the time but not quite the Porsche but it was not meant to compete with that at 1/3rd of the price. It got a bad rep but particularly the 2nd gen was actually a pretty good car and one of GMs most innovative and a big departure from standard American fare.
One thing I agree with is that domestic manufacturers can't seem to make a car that feels like a German car or most Euro cars. The reason for that is that most Corvettes are sold in automatic to a 60+ year old guy who will never see a track session so why build it for that when he will just complain about how bumpy it already rides. The said consumer also doesn't care that it clunks when you shut the doors and just could not understand what the difference is in a solid built car. Most magazines always compare the Vette to Euro sports cars but I just don't see them being for the same market. The buyers of said cars are usually 2 completely different people and not too many cross over to the other side. Just because a car has 2 seats (practical seats) and goes around a track at comparable times does not mean it was intended for the same market. I have a feeling that the mid engine Vette will be more of a Viper, Ford GT type car while the Vette goes on in traditional form.

[Racer Boy]

Slamming American engineering is ridiculous. For all intents and purposes, a Corvette is as quick as a 911 for a lot less money, and it's probably a lot less expensive to maintain, as well. Do you expect the Ford GT will be a bad car?

I recently had a base model Camaro as a rental car, and it not only would smoke my Boxster in a straight line, it would out-handle it as well, all season tires and all.

I realize this is a Porsche forum, but let's not get too far away from reality!

[Porsche9]

I'm excited to see GM moving forward with a mid-engined Corvette. Considering the shrinking market for sports cars (have you seen recent Boxster and Cayman sales figures) I am glad any manufacturer is willing to spend money on developing a mid-engined car.

Yes it will be American and not German. Each has there pros and cons and I'm not worried about GM not being able to engineer a great car if they put there minds to it. I personally prefer German cars but I'm just glad someone is willing to spend the resources to do it a car like this. Better then another crossover vehicle.

[billh1963]

Originally Posted by Racer Boy

Slamming American engineering is ridiculous. For all intents and purposes, a Corvette is as quick as a 911 for a lot less money, and it's probably a lot less expensive to maintain, as well. Do you expect the Ford GT will be a bad car?

I recently had a base model Camaro as a rental car, and it not only would smoke my Boxster in a straight line, it would out-handle it as well, all season tires and all.

I realize this is a Porsche forum, but let's not get too far away from reality!

I agree. I currently own more Porsches than many (two Boxsters, four aircooled 911's, three 914's (one with a 2.7 six) and have a 997TT coming in). That's not counting all the ones I have owned before.

That being said, I am no Porsche fanboy. Porsche has had their share of engineering issues over the years...and I'm not just talking about the IMS issues.

Crappy interiors? Anyone remember what was said about the early 986 /996 interiors? They were a huge drop in quality compared to the 993.

Most Corvettes will be sold with automatics...really? What the hell do you think Porsche (and Ferrari, and McLaren and so on) is putting in all their cars? It sure isn't a manual transmission. In fact, I dare say you can get a manual more easily in a Corvette than you can in a 911.

Build quality? Really? Since the water cooled era Porsche's have been built to a price. Don't talk about "door clunking" until you compare the door closing on my 1976 911S to that of a new Porsche. My '76 clunk will bring tears to your eyes. Even my '74 914 has a better "door clunk" than many 986/996's I've looked at or owned.

I've never owned a Corvette. However, I'm getting close. The new Corvette is a helluva a machine for the price. For that matter, so is the new Mustang. My oldest son bought a new one with the V6. With the new IRS, it handles great and will smoke an older 996 while getting better gas mileage.

The car world is changing....

[cfos]

Originally Posted by BIGJake111

I think it'll be okay if it's all we can buy. I'd rather a gt350 though.

Besides I never said I don't or do like the guy, just facing the facts of how some policy may affect the automotive world and that's relevant and capable of being discussed without too much underwear knotting.

No, but if I recall correctly, most people here are buying cars "used". So... explain to me how private sales of cars are going to be hugely taxed?

Getting back to the thread, I hope the new corvette is a winner. Be interested to see what it looks like when in production. Probably will never buy one, but nice to see them go in a mid-engine direction.

[Nine8Six]

Edit: there you go, now that's a proper roadster

[RedTele58]

The difference between a Porsche and a Corvette owner and build reliability...

If one of our Porsche engines so much as hiccups, we'll shut it down on the side of the road, flatbed it home, Google it, write up a forum post to get everyone's opinion about what's wrong, lose sleep, get opinions from three different indy shops, wring our hands and worry for days that the engine is ready to self destruct.

If a Corvette engine hiccups, the first thing the owner will do is rev it to redline, dump the clutch and lay 300 feet of rubber to see if it cures itself. Problem solved.

[Deserion]

Originally Posted by RedTele58

The difference between a Porsche and a Corvette owner and build reliability...

If one of our Porsche engines so much as hiccups, we'll shut it down on the side of the road, flatbed it home, Google it, write up a forum post to get everyone's opinion about what's wrong, lose sleep, get opinions from three different indy shops, wring our hands and worry for days that the engine is ready to self destruct.

If a Corvette engine hiccups, the first thing the owner will do is rev it to redline, dump the clutch and lay 300 feet of rubber to see if it cures itself. Problem solved.

Pretty much.

Something something most GMs will run poorly longer than other cars will run...

Friends with American cars had fewer issues than I ever had with any of my German cars (Boxster excepted). The 964 and W124 need more work just due to their age and mileage.

When I went through my last jaunt into the new car world, I bought an American-built Japanese car (first for both aspects for me). Overall, my Boxster has been a huge step in durability/quality/reliability over any previous VW I had.

Can't wait to see if this is actually going to be a Corvette or somehow will be a halo car for Cadillac (or both).

[Timco]

Is mid engine the next frontier for American performance cars that care about ultimate performance?

[thstone]

Originally Posted by Racer Boy

Slamming American engineering is ridiculous.

Sorry if it appeared that I was slamming American engineering - that was not my intention. American engineers, as a group, are the best, brightest, and most innovative in the world and I am proud to call myself one of them.

With that being said, all I was saying is that I doubt GM's ability to create a world class car out of the box on Version 1.0. My thinking was that it will likely take them an iteration or two before they really get it right because of their inexperience with the mid-engined platform. Its not that I consider GM engineers to be stupid or dumb or bad engineers, just inexperienced with the mid-engine platform.

I went on to say that the reason that I believe Porsche to be ahead in the mid-engine game is because of their 20-year head start with the Boxster/Cayman. I'd suggest that it also took Porsche 2-3 iterations to get it right. The 986 Boxster was a great first try but certainly not a perfect car by any means whereas the Cayman GT-4 is considered by some to be one of the greatest mid-engined sports cars.

In regards to Ford, the GT was a great car out of the box, so American engineering can certainly do the job! But the 2005/2006 Ford GT was a halo car that listed around $150,000 (or $185K in today's dollars). Unfortunately, the mid-engine Corvette isn't going to be able to command a price anywhere near $185K so it will be full of engineering and materials compromises in order to meet the $80K price point. And just for reference, the new 2016 Ford GT lists at $450,000 so its mostly irrelevant to this discussion.

The question is whether GM can design and build a car as good as the Cayman GT-4 (which lists for around $85K) for a slightly lower price (around $80K)?

Honestly, I hope GM proves me wrong.

[BIGJake111]

Originally Posted by cfos

No, but if I recall correctly, most people here are buying cars "used". So... explain to me how private sales of cars are going to be hugely taxed?

Of course it matters, the new market affects the used market, if new Porsches are priced out of the market then you can bet old ones will go up in value but it definitely is relevant in relation to a new mid engine corvette as in this case we're speaking of the competition for the American auto industry and the possibly lack thereof matters significantly.