First time I heard of this theory... IMS

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by 356Guy

A buyers dilemma is how to figure out which one you are getting. (at least for low mileage cars)

ps as soon as I ask the sellers about the IMS they seem to lose interest. I'm assuming they have already dealt with inquiries from potential buyers on this.

Sellers seem to fall into two categories: Those that are aware of the issue, and those that are not. And you might be surprised how many fall into the later case. Sellers that have had an IMS retrofit also encounter resistance as well when they discover that some astute buyers look at their brand or type of retrofit as a detriment rather than a value adder. You can imagine how quickly their eyes glaze over when a prospective buyer resonds by telling them that they have heard that the styles or brand of retrofit they spent a couple thousand $ on is less than desirable. We have actually seen buyers tell sellers that they would only move forward if the seller dropped their asking price by an amount concomitant with redoing the exsisting retrofit with one they see as a better option. The only type of retrofit that seems immune to this second guessing is the IMS Solution.

[jaykay]

I would make sure your new RMS is installed to or has remained installed to the proper depth.....my new 997 started to leak after 3 or four sessions. It had come unseated or was not installed correctly. No choice but to drop the trans and replace with new, properly.

Nothing more disheartening than an oil leak in that area after a track day

[particlewave]

Originally Posted by Nine8Six

You got it all wrong, its the citrus powder that works

There are so many options out there. I always get them mixed up!

Thanks for the clarification!

[Nine8Six]

Originally Posted by particlewave

There are so many options out there. I always get them mixed up!

Thanks for the clarification!

No worries, happy to help in my best capacity.

The grape is for coolant mixing (water pump). Just to get the record straight

[356Guy]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

...The only type of retrofit that seems immune to this second guessing is the IMS Solution.

Yes, it has become obvious that Boxsters around here seem hard to sell without an IMS upgrade which is a consideration when I buy because I don't keep cars long. Many if not most buyers now are enthusiasts and educated on the issue. The local shop quoted $4-5k to do the clutch and IMS. Its a tough sell on a $10-20k car that you just bought. I'll do it myself but it is still $4k in parts with the IMS Solution (I'm currently in the "IMS Solution is the best" camp too as I think AF bearings in an engine are just a bad idea.)

[10/10ths]

.....should not calculate the cost of ownership that way.

If you think about it in the terms of spending $4,000 on a $10,000 car, it seems apocalyptic.

But you just must not look at it in those terms.

You have to think about it as investing $14,000 in a world class, mid-engined, Flat-Six, dual trunk, convertible, baby exotic.

What other mid-engined convertible can you buy for that kind of money?

A Toyota MR Spyder, well.....sure.

You can't buy a Ferrari, or Lambo or R8 convertible for $14,000.

The cost of ownership INCLUDES an IMS Solution.

Just accept that.

It's just like buying a used Ferrari 308, you have to factor in the cost of engine removal for timing belt replacement. That's $15,000 on a $40,000 car.

The Boxster is not the only old sports car that has a huge "hidden" cost that many buyers don't know about.

I love my Boxster. I did my research. I bought her two years ago, a 2004 model, and I budgeted shipping her to Flat 6 Innovations to have Raby install the IMS Solution and a clutch and R&R other potential failure items.

It was just the cost of buying one of these in my mind.

And you know what? I'm thrilled. My wife and I have put 15,000 miles on her traveling all around the country on multiple awesome vacations in the past year.

I don't even remember what I paid for it all. The value remains, long after the price is forgotten.

She's my dream car. She's the exotic car I always wanted. Priceless.

[Smallblock454]

Maybe there are other SOLUTIONS than fear marketing?

Maybe they are simple and cost efficient.

Perhaps i go with citrus powder. Or just mill some simple tools and replace the bearing with a good quality one. So maybe 100 USD max. every clutch replacement. But hey, i don't know nothing. Just can cook water to make bad tasting coffee.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by 356Guy

Yes, it has become obvious that Boxsters around here seem hard to sell without an IMS upgrade which is a consideration when I buy because I don't keep cars long. Many if not most buyers now are enthusiasts and educated on the issue. The local shop quoted $4-5k to do the clutch and IMS. Its a tough sell on a $10-20k car that you just bought. I'll do it myself but it is still $4k in parts with the IMS Solution (I'm currently in the "IMS Solution is the best" camp too as I think AF bearings in an engine are just a bad idea.)

Doing it yourself is going to be less than $4K. Figure $400 for a clutch kit and bolts, $20 for an RMS, under $1800 for the Solution kit, plus any other incidentals (AOS, gear oil, etc.) you want to do while you have it apart. In my world that comes in at around $2200.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Smallblock454

Maybe there are other SOLUTIONS than fear marketing?

No one is telling anyone to be afraid, but rather look at their options, discern what is best for them, and not to bury their head in the sand and think it can't happen to them. It can, and does...............

[356Guy]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Doing it yourself is going to be less than $4K. Figure $400 for a clutch kit and bolts, $20 for an RMS, under $1800 for the Solution kit, plus any other incidentals (AOS, gear oil, etc.) you want to do while you have it apart. In my world that comes in at around $2200.

Sorry. Canadian $$$ plus flywheel, if needed

[particlewave]

Who cares if the IMSB explodes. Part it out and buy another or put another engine in if you're that stuck on the 986. $700+ for a bearing or $1800whatever for a bushing is just plain stupid.

Spend $4k to feel better about the IMSB, then some other unrelated catastrophic failure happens or you wreck it. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
It's just a car worth around $10k on a good day. Drive the damn thing.

[Nine8Six]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

No one is telling anyone to be afraid, but rather look at their options, discern what is best for them, and not to bury their head in the sand and think it can't happen to them. It can, and does...............

Ppl generally fear what they don't understand. The point of this thread is find out why Joe's car is perfectly fine but Emma's car had a IMS failure.

I think this is what ppl wants to know. They also want to know whether it is a general design flaw or affecting a certain group of cars only. Fair enough questions if you ask me.

Not sure ppl wants to hear that "it can happen, and it does". Speaking for myself I have no idea how this translates in engineering terms. Not that I care mind you but some actually does. A lot apparently

[Nine8Six]

Also, Jeff, has anyone (or yourself personally) ever asked a Porsche Eng/official what could be the reason(s) behind the failure? Can't believe for a minute that he/she would be so unprofessional and ignore the question. I'd be interested to hear what's their assessment (or theory loll) is in technical terms preferably.

out of curiosity only...

[mikefocke]

Originally Posted by 356Guy

It comes down to risk tolerance. ... Its interesting to note that all the sellers I've communicated with so far don't believe the upgrade is necessary

Now if I were selling a car and it didn't have something, what would I tell you about the importance of that something?

[boxxster]

Don't know if there is any truth to this, but I was told by a tech at the local porsche dealer that the m96 does not like to be stalled and that stalling these engines is hard on the IMS bearing. I forget how he explained it but essentially the more you stall your car the higher the chance of IMS failure. Again, I can't substantiate any of this, its just another theory (of many) that I've heard.

[356Guy]

Originally Posted by Nine8Six

Also, Jeff, has anyone (or yourself personally) ever asked a Porsche Eng/official what could be the reason(s) behind the failure? ....

prohibited I would think

Originally Posted by mikefocke

Now if I were selling a car and it didn't have something, what would I tell you about the importance of that something?

Oh I get it

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by 356Guy

Sorry. Canadian $$$ plus flywheel, if needed

The need for replacing flywheels is pretty much overstated. We only replace flywheels on one out of every six or seven clutch jobs, and even then mostly because the flywheel was either damaged by a clutch disc worn down to the rivets, or run for a prolonged time with an RMS leak that degraded the elastomeric material. Rarely do we see a dry flywheel with no physical damage that needs replacing. We inspect and test everyone we see, but many are just fine, even with a lot of miles on them.

[356Guy]

I've replaced 50% of them in Porsches ( sample size = 2 )

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Nine8Six

Also, Jeff, has anyone (or yourself personally) ever asked a Porsche Eng/official what could be the reason(s) behind the failure? Can't believe for a minute that he/she would be so unprofessional and ignore the question. I'd be interested to hear what's their assessment (or theory loll) is in technical terms preferably.

out of curiosity only...

Yes, I have had the opportunity to ask exactly that, and for the most part, their answers are evasive, usually deferring a direct answer due the class action involving the IMS. Basically, they are using the legal action as a shield.

[Dave80GTSi]

Originally Posted by 10/10ths

It's just like buying a used Ferrari 308, you have to factor in the cost of engine removal for timing belt replacement. That's $15,000 on a $40,000 car.

Not to quibble, but you do not need to pull the engine to swap the cam belts in a 308.