Fighting Insurance - Help Requested - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

Deserion · 01-02-2017, 07:07 PM

In December 2015, I was backed into at a stop light on a side road because a teen driver wanted to turn around to go into a shopping center. Police came, they were at fault, filed my insurance claim.

Hood was trashed, the frunk panel (where the latch bolts on) had to be pulled back into place, and the bumper cover was repaired. Here's the issue - at the time, the body shop told me that they wanted to replace the cover but the insurance only wanted to pay for a repair. Okay, fine. And when I picked it up, it looked pretty good.

Fast forward a few months. The place where the SUV spare tire hit (the bumper cover portion between the headlights and right below the frunklid) is curving back into concave shape. To me, it's noticeable - even my non-car-enthusiast mom can see it, and other local Boxster owners I know can as well.

Now I'm being told that insurer still refuses to replace it, and the adjuster even told me that the shop never told him they wanted to replace the cover. I think that's a bit of a false-truth or error on his part.

Is this really something I can fight the insurance company on? If so, how?

Part of me thinks I'm being overly critical, but my car definitely did NOT have that issue prior to being hit. As it is, I don't see it as being made whole (also working on a loss of value claim as well).

Pre-crash:

Post-crash:

See the indentation/curve?

steved0x · 01-02-2017, 07:35 PM

Very noticeable on that last photo. I got hit in my FJ a year or two back and the shop that did the work guaranteed the repairs through the life of my ownership. Maybe a place to start would be the shop that did your work? And then maybe escalate? I also got a check for $500 for diminished value just by asking, but had to sign something saying that resolved the claim for good. Hopefully if my bumper falls off I am not SOL.

Very noticeable, sorry for your loss, hope you are ok!

Chuck W. · 01-02-2017, 07:48 PM

I can only speak for California... Small Claims Court. I filed suit for $1,800 against State Farm due to an issue with them. They contacted me prior to the court date and settled. It was not worth their time to go to court for that amount. Get two estimates for a new bumper painted and installed and take them to small claims court.

Lew · 01-02-2017, 08:15 PM

If it were me I would call the Florida Insurance Commissioners office and just let them know your problem, and let them advise you. These Insurance companies don't want to hear from the Commissioners office regarding unhappy customers. I would be pointing my finger at the shop for not repairing the bumper properly. I don't know if you were told where to take your car, but the shop that did the so call repair should be held responsible If this Body Shop is on Progressive's list of repair shops, they do not want to be removed from Progressive's list for future body work. You know these shops and insurance companies work together, but the Insurance company expects a Body shop to repair your car properly. Good Luck!

Lew · 01-02-2017, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck W.

I can only speak for California... Small Claims Court. I filed suit for $1,800 against State Farm due to an issue with them. They contacted me prior to the court date and settled. It was not worth their time to go to court for that amount. Get two estimates for a new bumper painted and installed and take them to small claims court.

In Georgia you only need one estimate, not sure about Florida. I might be looking at a Porsche Dealership for a estimate, or the shop that does their work. If this claim heads in that direction.

Deserion · 01-06-2017, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lew

If it were me I would call the Florida Insurance Commissioners office and just let them know your problem, and let them advise you. These Insurance companies don't want to hear from the Commissioners office regarding unhappy customers.

I submitted a complaint this week, and am waiting to hear back. Hopefully it'll give me some thoughts on how to proceed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lew

I would be pointing my finger at the shop for not repairing the bumper properly. I don't know if you were told where to take your car, but the shop that did the so call repair should be held responsible If this Body Shop is on Progressive's list of repair shops, they do not want to be removed from Progressive's list for future body work.

The shop has been good to work with, work-wise. They do lack at follow-up calls and follow-up on parts. Such as the VIN/option sticker under the hood is STILL not in (Brumos got the order from the shop at the end of March '16, fell through the cracks when they were sold to Fields, shop never followed-up). I shouldn't have to follow-up on that, and the lack of the tag is an obvious indicator the hood has been replaced.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lew

You know these shops and insurance companies work together, but the Insurance company expects a Body shop to repair your car properly. Good Luck!

That's what you'd figure but the "adjuster" seems to want to push this back to the shop and not pay - even though it's being subrogated to the liable party's Progressive policy. Guess they're looking out for the company.

Also working on an appraisal for a DV claim in addition. Will stop by the shop on my way home from the office as Monday will mark 3 weeks it's been sitting there and still no clue what's going on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck W.

I can only speak for California... Small Claims Court. I filed suit for $1,800 against State Farm due to an issue with them. They contacted me prior to the court date and settled. It was not worth their time to go to court for that amount. Get two estimates for a new bumper painted and installed and take them to small claims court.

Going to get stuff ready for that, if I wind up needing to go that route.

thom4782 · 01-06-2017, 07:53 PM

It's hard do see how you're going to win this one because it will be hard to prove which party was negligent.

The insurance company seemed to follow standard industry practice. Hard to prove they were negligent

The shop seemed to repair the cover properly and you accepted the repair. If the defect appeared months after you picked up the car, perhaps you can argue the shop failed to provide repair that lasted a long time. But that seems a stretch.

Good luck...

Lew · 01-06-2017, 08:25 PM

Anyone ever heard of Kabooki talk. The Wife's VW Beetle had it's hood damaged by a large piece of a tire from a 18 wheeler. It was hit by the car we were following on the Expressway and it flew back from under the car and struck the hood. I filed a claim and the Body Shop ordered a new hood from VW. Shops rarely try to repair hoods. Anyway the hood was painted and the fenders were painted because the shop said they needed to blend the paint. Kabooki talk! It's a way for the shops to make more money on a repair. After a month the paint peeled off the tops of the fenders. Statefarm screamed about the repair, and said for the shop to fix. I said not that shop and I took it to another Body Shop. Statefarm said no, but I was in charge as to who was going to repair my wife's car. Remember insurance companies cannot tell you where to take your car for repairs. The other shop told me the fenders were not prepaired properly.....the fenders were repainted and looked great. I might add the second shop said they would have just painted the hood. Hold the Insurance company's feet to the fire. You pay their premiums right!

Anker · 01-07-2017, 06:16 AM

It always helps a ton if you have comprehensive collision on your own insurance. I was surprised to learn that insurance was only $500 a year on my 2004 S.

Several years ago I rear ended a trick in my Dodge minivan. My hood was replaced, but two years later it started rusting badly because the body shop had used a third party hood. By keeping the insurance company's feet to the fire I was able to get them to replace it with a genuine Dodge hood.

Good luck/Anker

thstone · 01-07-2017, 06:50 AM

This is a question of warranty.

Check the paperwork from the repair order. What warranty did the shop offer on the repair? If the problem was discovered within the warranty period, then fight like hell to get the shop to repair it properly. If you are outside the warranty period, then this will be an uphill battle that will be hard to win.

In my experience, fighting with an insurance company is a long-term battle. I spent 15 months fighting over my totaled silver Boxster. The insurance company delayed and lied about everything they could to see if I would just give up and go away. Maybe your experience will be much better, but be prepared for a long slog in the mud.

Anker · 01-07-2017, 07:18 AM

Another suggestion is to always go through an independent insurance agency to purchase insurance. They have much more leverage than you and at least mine is prepared to fight for me.

Lew · 01-07-2017, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thstone

This is a question of warranty.

Check the paperwork from the repair order. What warranty did the shop offer on the repair? If the problem was discovered within the warranty period, then fight like hell to get the shop to repair it properly. If you are outside the warranty period, then this will be an uphill battle that will be hard to win.

In my experience, fighting with an insurance company is a long-term battle. I spent 15 months fighting over my totaled silver Boxster. The insurance company delayed and lied about everything they could to see if I would just give up and go away. Maybe your experience will be much better, but be prepared for a long slog in the mud.

It really depends on your Insurance Company. Statefarm is the worst on settling claims. I experienced it, and have heard it from others. That's why I switched after 40+ years with them. Plus they continued going up on premiums. I am now with Travelers, and they are much cheaper than Statefarm on my 3 vehicles. A Woman recently bumped into the back of my VW Sportswagen. She had stopped behind me at a traffic light, and rolled forward slowly bumping into me. No damage could be seen. However I called Travelers and reported it. The Woman had insurance with guess who.....Statefarm. I was surprised when a claims adjuster called and wanted to come to my house to see the car. After seeing my VW, he said I would be getting a check for $375. I could not believe it. I guess they did not want to battle with Travelers on not seeing any damage.

thom4782 · 01-07-2017, 09:19 PM

Selecting a good insurance company is hard.

Think about it from the insurance company's point of view. Their goal is to increase profits, think premiums paid - claims paid - fixed costs. Thus, if customers pay low premiums, then insurance companies tend to get stingy about paying claims. i.e., they low ball claim settlements.

Insurance companies may not be able to tell you where to get your car repaired, but they are in the driver's seat when deciding how to pay out.

As someone said, working through an independent insurance agency id s good idea. If anyone is going to be in your corner, it's likely them

BTW: if you're unhappy with what the insurance company offers, don't settle and don't accept a partial payment without reading the fine print. Once you do, you give up a lot of rights to contest things. An insurance company sent me a check a few years ago for 90% of what I wanted. If I cashed the check, the fine print said the claim was settled in full. Only when I sent the un-endorsed $15K check back did the company agree to pay in full.

thom4782 · 01-07-2017, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thstone

This is a question of warranty.

Check the paperwork from the repair order. What warranty did the shop offer on the repair? If the problem was discovered within the warranty period, then fight like hell to get the shop to repair it properly. If you are outside the warranty period, then this will be an uphill battle that will be hard to win.

This is an excellent point. Because you settled with the insurance company and accepted the car back from the shop, your only recourse may be a warranty claim. Check the fine print of the insurance settlement and the repair contract to see if either one warranted to work.

Anker · 01-08-2017, 07:08 AM

We never cash the checks until the repair is done. We have a great body shop and they also help a lot in our dealings with the insurance company. Also, we have never experienced a premium increase because of an accident.

particlewave · 01-08-2017, 09:19 AM

This is not the insurance company's fault. You should have demanded the correct repair. Take it up with the shop and threaten legal action if necessary.

Deserion · 01-08-2017, 10:12 AM

Update:
Stopped by the shop on Friday, and some other damage was found that they had overlooked prior. They apologized several times on that, and more parts are on order now, mainly the center bumper carrier (which was cracked) and a frunk release cable (as that had damage as well). The frunk bulkhead (where the latch attaches) is being pulled out more to get it in line, and the hood was adjusted as well.

Moving forward, at the least. Should have this coming correction ready by the weekend, so I'll see where it goes from there.

Appreciate the input, guys.

mikefocke · 01-08-2017, 10:40 AM

I've seen cars totaled with less.

So they are bending the frame without any strengthening, any frame alignment measurement (by jig or laser), any wheel alignment? What does this do to the structural integrity of the frame and its ability to protect you in the next crash? They missed a cracked part and a bent part....wow!! Have they worked on lots of Porsches before?