Remapping ECU

[DWBOX2000]

Watching wheeler dealer this am. Ed remapped the Ecu on a 944 turbo gaining about 30hp. Can this be done on a 3.2? Pros/cons?
Just curious, thanks.

[Boxtaboy]

Key is that it was done on a turbo engine. I gained 40+hp on my tuned Audi but that's because in the tune, they reprogram the engine to supply double the boost. With a N/A engine, you can't do that. Yes, if they optimize the tune, you can maybe get a couple extra horses, but nothing near 30hp.

[DWBOX2000]

Ah, thanks.

[bwdz]

Easy to do on Turbo engines as you are upping the boost supplying much more air to the engine. Your engine's air supply is fixed unless you make some hardware changes. You can optimize fuel delivery and timing because manufacturers have to be somewhat conservative with it because it has to run right in all weather conditions at all elevations etc.. and it has to be smooth and reliable and compensate for you occasionally getting poor quality fuel and so on and so forth.
You can gain a few hp from remapping with more aggressive timing curves but it won't be all that much, probably 10-15hp peak with maybe a nicer midrange torque curve. Oh and be careful of tuner's ads for hp gained with their tunes. Back in the 90s I worked in a performance shop and ran a flowbench and dyno and we made some aftermarket parts for Mustang 5.0s. A lot of the chips we tested that gained 25hp advertised only did so at unusable rpm long after you shifted, peak hp would be like 3 or 4hp gain. Some of them would get down right scary lean conditions.

[DWBOX2000]

Thanks, this is very helpful. So is weight reduction really the only way to increase lbs/hp with a NA 6 cylinder other than going bigger motor? I'm not quite sure air filters and different mufflers work though I don't know.
I guess I could search. Thanks.

[jcslocum]

Weight, Undersized pulley, free-er flowing exhaust will help. The under-drive pulley being an immediate HP pickup. We eliminated the 2nd set of cats on your car along with the original muffler. A LOT of unexpected weight lost there!!

An upgrade to a bigger engine is always possible but spendy :-)

[Gelbster]

The most expensive option is to use a "Tune" that causes you to fail Smog Test for an equipment tampering violation.
Before you buy, get a written promise that the Tune will pass Smog Tests in your State. The new Smog machines can detect ECU program changes. And in California, the old Pre-Test trick no longer works either.
The work around is to makes sure it is easy to revert to the OEM settings and do it a month before the Test to make sure the switch is undetectable and that you have no Pending Codes.If you doubt the significance of the "Equipment Tampering" violation punishments ,I suggest you Google it. Recently the costs for re-complying have escalated.

[JFP in PA]

One of the most common, and least appreciated, effects is the inability of a reflashed car to pass modern "advanced" smog testing (read connect with the OBD II system and read) now required in many states. We have had cars ranging from 986 Boxsters to 996 Turbos that failed these tests after getting the DME "flashed", and the only way to get them through was to take the DME back to stock programming. This used to only happen once in awhile, but is now cropping up more often, apparently as the state systems get better at noticing something is different.

[Boxtaboy]

FWIW, I recently passed the NJ state inspection in my APR tuned Audi. I had the ability to switch back to stock programming very easily, but kept it in tuned mode, and it still passed without any issue.

[bwdz]

Tell you what the most unappreciated mod is, lightweight set of wheels. You want your car to accelerate, stop and corner better then save a few pounds a corner. The rotational weight of a wheel is so much more than just regular weight. I had a friend who did circle track and went from a 19lbs wheel to a 16lbs wheel and caught right up to the front runners. Couldn't believe the difference with just that. I just sold a set of 3 piece BBS wheels, in 16x7 they were only 15.4lbs a piece, your typical factory wheel in that size is in the 24-28lbs range. The fact that it is unsprung weight and rotational weight makes the biggest difference. Imagine you tie a string to your finger and spin it around in the air with a 25lb weight on it at 70mph and then reduce that to around 19lbs and you will know why it makes such a difference. Beauty of going with lightweight wheels is that they look great and you don't sacrifice any driveability or comfort creatures to do it. Having said all that some factory wheels are not heavy. I am putting a set of Cayman wheels on mine and the 18x8 front is 21lbs and the rears are 22.8 according to my luggage scale.

[Boxtaboy]

Problem is 16" wheels don't look good no matter how light they are. 18" OZ Allegererita HLTs are only 17.4 lbs front / 18.8 rears, and look pretty decent.

[bwdz]

Originally Posted by Boxtaboy

Problem is 16" wheels don't look good no matter how light they are. 18" OZ Allegererita HLTs are only 17.4 lbs front / 18.8 rears, and look pretty decent.

I wasn't implying to go 16s just citing how light they were, going with lightweight in whatever size you chose is the recommendation I was implying. Yours sound really light and I have had OZ wheels before and they held up decent albeit not great on Michigan roads (I bent them in a couple seasons)

[Boxtaboy]

Originally Posted by bwdz

I wasn't implying to go 16s just citing how light they were, going with lightweight in whatever size you chose is the recommendation I was implying. Yours sound really light and I have had OZ wheels before and they held up decent albeit not great on Michigan roads (I bent them in a couple seasons)

Oh I know you weren't suggesting we go to 16s. You make a good point. It's an easy way to gain performance. I don't have the OZs right now (have SSR 3-piece forged wheels currently), but even those aren't that light (24lbs)...will be switching to those OZs if I ever need to replace the SSRs.

[bwdz]

Originally Posted by Boxtaboy

Oh I know you weren't suggesting we go to 16s. You make a good point. It's an easy way to gain performance. I don't have the OZs right now (have SSR 3-piece forged wheels currently), but even those aren't that light (24lbs)...will be switching to those OZs if I ever need to replace the SSRs.

LOL, you know we're picky when we know the exact weight of our wheels. Just another reminder of how important rotating weight is, why do you think the high end cars have cross drilled brake rotors, the answer of course is to save a few ounces of rotating weight as they are really just prone to cracking that way but rotating weight is that important.

[Anker]

Cross drilling is for heat dissipation. Allows air to circulate through the inside of the rotor.

Anker

[Gelbster]

Originally Posted by Anker

Cross drilling is for heat dissipation. Allows air to circulate through the inside of the rotor.

Anker

Depends how big he makes the holes ! :-)

[Gelbster]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

One of the most common, and least appreciated, effects is the inability of a reflashed car to pass modern "advanced" smog testing (read connect with the OBD II system and read) now required in many states. We have had cars ranging from 986 Boxsters to 996 Turbos that failed these tests after getting the DME "flashed", and the only way to get them through was to take the DME back to stock programming. This used to only happen once in awhile, but is now cropping up more often, apparently as the state systems get better at noticing something is different.

Thanks for chiming in JFP. I hate to see people get in legal & financial trouble with the Authorities when they were just enjoying their car hobby.
We have the new "DAD" machines in Calif and they are very effective at detecting any changes to the ECU. I have an interest in a repair facility that uses this equipment.The DAD compares the tested car's ECU to a 'map' of the stock ECU values. They give a report of all the differences. The DAD equipment automatically Flags 'tunes' and issues a Fail. The FAIL Report requires the owner to go to a Referee. Silly name. It really means instrument of unlimited financial torture and legal misery.
These DAD machines are gradually becoming the standard in other States. There is some uncertainty about how far back in time their ECU map knowledge goes and if they are extending it .The resources deployed to catch a few Tuners is alarming.
We recently had this discussion elsewhere and I linked DAD Training videos to indicate how effective their detection system is. I like 'tunes' and have used them but this DAD system is a game changer.No Tunes for me anymore. I abandoned posting when people with tunes insisted they could get around the test - but hadn't bothered to study the DAD materials. Now the weeping tales of misery with the Referee are beginning to creep into some car tuning Forums. The worst scenario is that you get a new Smog Test to sell a car. After the test you reflash the ecu to impress a potential buyer with the performance of the car. Later the new owner fails a Smog Test due to ecu tampering. It gets nasty real fast .

[bwdz]

Originally Posted by Anker

Cross drilling is for heat dissipation. Allows air to circulate through the inside of the rotor.

Anker

Don't buy into that myth, it does not. Read up on it or go the track with your infrared thermometer. It is just for weight reduction because they had to make the rotor larger and thicker.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by bwdz

Don't buy into that myth, it does not. Read up on it or go the track with your infrared thermometer. It is just for weight reduction because they had to make the rotor larger and thicker.

Both are incorrect; the rotors are cross drilled to allow gases to escape from between the pad and rotors. In dry conditions, the primary gas generation is from the bonding agents that hold the pad together. In the wet, steam is added from the heat. In either case, gas generation between the pad face and the rotor tends to push the pad off the rotor, with a significant loss of breaking effort. Give the gas somewhere to go, and the problem goes away.

[Anker]

I did some more research and I believe this page is the closest. According to the cross drilling and slotting improve both cooling and pad contact.

Anker