Am I being a D$#K trying to buy a Boxster

[fanguy]

Car 1,
So I found a used 2002 S w/78k miles at a multiline dealership. They started at 13k been on the lot 80 days dropped it to 12,800. Talked with I guy I know runs and Porsche indie shop he said the 95k zone can be expensive replacing stuff. Overall clean car has some wear haven’t taken it to him yet but he said easy $3k of stuff that needs to be replaced. IMS was done w/L&N have docs and talk with past owner. The only things I see on visual are R side windscreen and broken hinge on center armrest. So I offered them 11,500 (talk with Sales Mgr) he said 12,644 is a low as they could go and said he could get more than 11,500 at auction. I said what if the PPI show $k,k,k,k to get it drivable to a reasonable point. He said that why it’s as is. I said your online post (it’s on 7 different sites (but I didn’t say Post’s. I said you advertise it had it had a 102 point insp(they also have the Porsche line doubt it was done in that shop) and in mint condition. We’ll not our problem it’s 12,644 as is and the PPI is just to let you know what repairs you might need to do. I thanked them for their consideration he said here is my card and let me know.

Car 2,
This weekend I found a 2003 S with 19k 2 owners. Super clean-clean car. He doesn’t know anything about Porsche, but about 800 miles for the last 2 years he owned it. Installed a trickle charger because he does not drive it very much. Did not know anything about IMS and changes oil once. Said he never looked at the engine. Looking on Cargurus, AutoTrader and several other came up with 21K. Found it CL for 19K. Day after I saw it on CL add was pulled and other adds went to 18,500. He said at 19k I was the second person who called. I offered 16,500, said needed to talk with wife and would get back with me. Next day got a txt said he would do 17,300 I agreed pending PPI. 2 day later (yesterday) had PPI (the oil pan was pulled, filter autopsied showed us computer printout (he came and got us several time and took us into the service bay to show stuff). Report was passenger side window regulator, rear wheel bearing, oil filler tube, and no evidence that any service had ever been done, other than oil changes. And need complete service total $2,850. The tires were manufactured in 2002 (original tries) and showed dry rotting and should be replaced. So now it’s about $3,500. Also said this car was a prime candidate for IMS failure. L&N added another $2,100. The PPI took almost 3 hours and we both needed to run and plan was to get back today. We did, he said at the 18,500 price has had 42 inquiries. I saw the IMS as my issue and said let’s discuss the 3,500. He said since the car had a value of 21,000 and he came down to 17,300 that covered the 3,500 and the would go to 16,800. I said I was unwilling to do that. He said he thought the tires were fine and I could some $78.00 and that would be fine, he could replace the wheel bearing himself and the oil tube was no big deal and he never noticed any problem with window until they guy showed him and it would be fine. And the IMS only has a 2% chance of failing so it now big concern. I said I think were too far apart and he agreed. Shook hands and went our ways.

So am I being a ????? or acting appropriately, just looking for feedback at this rate I’m striking out.

[particlewave]

Car 1 I'd value between $11k-$12k, so that is not bad. If you really like it and it passes PPI without too much work needed, maybe offer $12k even and see what they say. The LN retrofit (if genuine) is a big plus on a single row IMSB car. $2k-$3k to get caught up on maintenance on top of the price really isn't that unusual and that cost can be cut significantly by doing some of the easy stuff yourself.

Car 2 is a prime candidate for IMS failure with its low miles and single row bearing. Add the bearing retrofit to the price tag and it's just not worth it, IMO.

[j.fro]

Originally Posted by particlewave

Car 1 I'd value between $11k-$12k, so that is not bad. If you really like it and it passes PPI without too much work needed, maybe offer $12k even and see what they say. The LN retrofit (if genuine) is a big plus on a single row IMSB car. $2k-$3k to get caught up on maintenance on top of the price really isn't that unusual and that cost can be cut significantly by doing some of the easy stuff yourself.

Car 2 is a prime candidate for IMS failure with its low miles and single row bearing. Add the bearing retrofit to the price tag and it's just not worth it, IMO.

I completely agree with PW.
Looks like you are shopping for a great deal on a great car. No sin there. You'll get it if you are patient. I just went through the same bit shopping for a Fiat 500 Abarth. It took 3 months.

[Giller]

Originally Posted by particlewave

Car 1 I'd value between $11k-$12k, so that is not bad. If you really like it and it passes PPI without too much work needed, maybe offer $12k even and see what they say. The LN retrofit (if genuine) is a big plus on a single row IMSB car. $2k-$3k to get caught up on maintenance on top of the price really isn't that unusual and that cost can be cut significantly by doing some of the easy stuff yourself.

Car 2 is a prime candidate for IMS failure with its low miles and single row bearing. Add the bearing retrofit to the price tag and it's just not worth it, IMO.

Bear in mind 'prime candidate' is what, on an 03, probably only about 8% made will have IMS issues. Therefore 92% will be just fine, even under it's current conditions.

[Slate 01]

Originally Posted by Giller

Bear in mind 'prime candidate' is what, on an 03, probably only about 8% made will have IMS issues. Therefore 92% will be just fine, even under it's current conditions.

Exactly right.

[PaulE]

I think there are more of these cars for sale than there are buyers. Keep shopping and see if car 2 is still available in a few weeks. After the seller has heard the same from some of those 42 potential purchasers who actually show up to see the car and have the means to buy it, he may be more inclined to negotiate. If someone else uniformed about the issues pays more you can't help that.

[mikefocke]

Don't pretend to know the OKC market.

First dealer is being a typical just-want-to-sell-it dealer.

Buying a used car that is 14 years old, I expect to put money into it to bring it up to my standards. I spent more than $3k on a 38k miles car and that was on a fewer years old car.

Second car you got a good PPI. But to me, the car starts out vastly overpriced. Boxsters aren't 911s. Especially considering the service history, I agree the IMS is a certainty on that car. Tires too and what amount to a 90k service.

I prefer buying from motivated sellers where I understand their motivation. My first was no room in the garage and rugrats. Second needed a 4 door for customers and there was snow on the ground.

Keep looking, there must be a thousand for sale now and will only be more as the winter sets in.

[particlewave]

Originally Posted by Giller

Bear in mind 'prime candidate' is what, on an 03, probably only about 8% made will have IMS issues. Therefore 92% will be just fine, even under it's current conditions.

8% before you factor in the low miles. I'm not one to drink the IMSB kool-aid, but the pros say that garage queens are more susceptible to bearing issues due to oil acidity inside the bearing (pitting and etching of the balls and races).

If I were to buy one of the two, higher miles and an LN retrofit would look much more appealing.

[achillies]

I know I bought an 03 S w/66,000 miles from a VW dealer. Paid 11,800..they were asking 12800 in April just as the temps were warming. It needed brakes/tires/ but the dealer sent it to the Porsche dealer for inspection and oil/filter/alignment and the car had some paperwork for service (Inc the LNIMS/Clutch). I am not sure $11500 is do-able at auction.

[husker boxster]

Based on your mechanic's est on C1 and the PPI on C2, looks like you can expect to pay roughly $3K on any car to get it up to snuff before doing IMSB. I don't drink IMSB Kool-Aid either, but think C2 would be a likely candidate for failure based on what we know.

I don't think C2 is too bad at $16.8. Almost 1/3 of that price is for the mileage. Yes you'll need to spend $5K to get it up to snuff, but at that pt you'll have a 19K mi car that is ready to give you years of enjoyment. As PaulE says, just because the seller had 42 calls, only a few will show up and even fewer will be serious. But the uninformed buyer will be impressed with the low mileage, that it hasn't "needed" any repairs, and the fact it has "original" tires. They won't have any idea what they're buying until it's theirs. But they're your competition.

If you can swing spending $22K on an 03S, I say consider it. Otherwise, keep looking. But be careful with your PPI funds. You can run up a big bill taking every car in for one.

[thstone]

Boxster's are a buyer's market. They are a dime a dozen. They pop up in the cracks in sidewalks.

Just keep walking away until you find the one you like at a price that you're willing to pay. There is no reason to overpay.

[Topless]

A 2003S with 19k miles? A lotta nice car for $17k. I would probably buy it, put fresh fluids and tires all around, get the IMS done to eliminate insomnia and drive one of the great all time sports cars for $21k. Seems like a win to me. That is about what I paid for my used creampuff 98 Boxster back in 2005.

[nicecar]

If asking questions and doing your homework is being a d**** then yes you are being one. I wish I had been a D*** when I bought my 02S with 88k miles for 17.5 with no ppi bought from a premium dealership ( Brumos ) and had 5k in work done within 30 days and a ton more at 97k. BUT worth every penny. A indy told me 5 yrs. ago I was going to have alot of fun in the car and he was right! Just tonight my daughter and I ran to acadamey sports in the car and just drove the piss out of it, I said I did not know if it is fun to ride as much as it is to drive. She said riding is a blast. So many good times! I will say for me that the car would have been long gone without this forum. Good luck Richard

[78F350]

#2 must be this one:
http://986forum.com/forums/boxsters-sale-wanted/61777-2003-boxster-s-sale.html

Nice car from the looks of it, but does need some catching up on maint and driving. I buy mine at the depreciated end of the spectrum, so I can't be trusted to put a price on it. My advice would be to buy this one if you can get a satisfactory price and then take it straight to the shop for fluids, tires, IMSB, and a good check of all the plastic and rubber. If you start racking up miles expect a couple surprises such as a coolant leak or the other window regulator to go out. Expect that on any 'new to me' 986 though.

[fanguy]

I appreciate the feedback and expanded my thought process. Working out of a semi vacuum can skew your thinking. The 03 is an easy better option and I know he's expecting a counter on the 16,800. I played with the numbers last night and read all the feedback this morning. It's more up front but a better car and longterm more cost effective and enjoyable.

farfegnugen

[RandallNeighbour]

Fanguy, be patient and keep searching for an 03S or newer car, and don't compromise on anything you really want in the car you purchase.

I so wish I had saved more, shopped more, and been far more patient to find a solid 03S with the 3.2 motor and a rear glass window and the upgraded interior.

[Topless]

One other idea is to change focus and look for a 2009-2012 car from $26-30k. There are not as many out there but this era got a big improvement in reliability with a redesigned motor that eliminates the IMS and includes DFI. The interior is further refined as well. The base 2.9L car matches performance of the earlier "S" models.

[VGM911]

Fanguy......

Volkswagen actually spelled it "fahrvergnügen" rather than "farfegnugen" in their advertising campaign. And, being proper Germans, they used an umlaut over the "u".

Auf wiedersehen


Here's some extra information for your enjoyment: "Fahrvergnügen" means "driving enjoyment" in English (from fahren, "to drive," and vergnügen, "enjoyment"). The term itself is not standard German but a neologism (compound noun) created especially for Volkswagen's advertising campaign. One of the tag lines incorporating the word was: "Fahrvergnügen: It's what makes a car a Volkswagen".
Source: Wikipedia

[imon_2nd]

Hello, Fanguy.

You're shopping the right way and following up on prospects correctly. At least it's the same way I buy cars. Dickishness doesn't matter.

As for low miles vs. high miles; I've had better luck over the years with higher miles cars that have been driven regularly and well maintained. The few garage queens I've bought have all given me trouble.

It took me 2 months to find a Boxster S in the right condition at the right price here in NorCal where they are pretty common. Just keep looking, and good luck.

Cheers,

Dave

[fanguy]

I now own a 2003 Boxster S
The owner and myself were able come to an argreement that worked well for all. Again, I appercaite your thoughts and look forward to contributing to the Boxster community.