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Old 06-11-2016, 04:50 PM   #1
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Issues with Retrofit Projector HID Lights!

Help!

For the last 2 days, I have not been able to fire my Projector HID lights. These are the early generation that was developed by Nine8Six and they have been mostly perfect for the year I have had them (I bought them from another member).

I have check the battery, alternator & starter. All good.

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Old 06-11-2016, 04:54 PM   #2
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Here is a picture when I go to the fog light switch (turn to left from off). Works fine.



Here is a picture when I go to the parking light mode (turn to right one click). Also works fine.



I will post a youtube link of what happens when I turn the lights all the way on (two clicks right).
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Old 06-11-2016, 04:58 PM   #3
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Here is the video of the HID's trying to fire.

Both sides do the same thing.

https://youtu.be/zajr0ZqFbw8

Any suggestions on how to debug this would be great.

This just started happening on Thursday Night.

Before that, it worked mostly fine. Occasionally they would come on but flicker. Turn them off and back on and all was good.
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Old 06-11-2016, 05:43 PM   #4
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Check the headlight switch. They are prone to come unglued. There is a post that shows the insides in pieces. There is a lot going on inside that small switch.
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Old 06-11-2016, 05:53 PM   #5
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+1 on the headlight switch


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Old 06-11-2016, 05:58 PM   #6
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Hello,

first: did you check the fuses? I don't know how it's wired, but i would check fuses first.

I don't know this system wiring in detail, but does this system use a resistor or a can-bus adapter? If yes, that was what i would inspect first. Because both sides don't work i don't think it's a ballast problem, but depends on how it's wired.

I don't think it's a headlight switch problem.

Regards, Markus

Last edited by Smallblock454; 06-11-2016 at 06:01 PM.
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Old 06-11-2016, 06:07 PM   #7
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Hello,

first: did you check the fuses? I don't know how it's wired, but i would check fuses first.

I don't know this system wiring in detail, but does this system use a resistor or a can-bus adapter? If yes, that was what i would inspect first. Because both sides don't work i don't think it's a ballast problem, but depends on how it's wired.

I don't think it's a headlight switch problem.

Regards, Markus
If it was a fuse problem, would the HID's *try* to fire?
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Old 06-11-2016, 06:33 PM   #8
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Hello jpc763,

as said, it depends on the wiring. In general HIDs use an additional fuse and relay. I don't know how your headlights are wired. Or if they use a can-bus adapter or something else.

Regards, Markus
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Old 06-11-2016, 07:36 PM   #9
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Sounds much like mine. A new headlight switch fixed the issues.
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Old 06-11-2016, 09:05 PM   #10
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Hello jpc763,

as said, it depends on the wiring. In general HIDs use an additional fuse and relay. I don't know how your headlights are wired. Or if they use a can-bus adapter or something else.

Regards, Markus
Hi Markus,

These are the HID retro that Nine8Six designed. I do not know where the fuse or relay are, perhaps in the housing.

I will dig through the thread to see if there is a fuse. I do have a question, if the fuse is bad, would the bulbs even try to fire?

Thanks, John
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Old 06-12-2016, 01:39 AM   #11
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Hi John,

is that a 35W HID kit? Or is it higher rated? Both, a 35W or a higher rated HID kit use more ampere at start up than normal bulbs. Also the HID headlight bulbs must match the ballasts capacity.

did a short search on the wiring myself and found this:
Porsche Headlight Retrofit [from CAD, prototyping to finish)
Porsche Headlight Retrofit [from CAD, prototyping to finish)

Wow, that's not how it should be wired in general, because Xenon HIDs suck more amperes than standard headlamps, especially when they start up. That's why in general there is an additional relay with an additional fuse that are both adjusted to the higher ampere consumption, especially at the start up of the headlamps.

That means the ballasts are switched by the cars light relay which is switched by the light switch. Additionally there are the headlight fuses of the car.

If the light switch would not work, the headlight would not try to ignite. The headlights are not switched by the headlight switch itself, they are switched by the light relays.

Because of the fact that the headlights try to ignite i would say the ballasts are both gone or you have a wiring problem at the ballasts, or they didn't get enough ampere to start up.

Additional question:
Do the normal headlights work in your car?

Regards, Markus

PS: the wiring diagrams for ROW, USA and Canada differ a bit when it comes to headlights. Canada for example has additional relays for daytime running lights.

Last edited by Smallblock454; 06-12-2016 at 03:39 AM.
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Old 06-12-2016, 07:29 AM   #12
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Hi John,

is that a 35W HID kit? Or is it higher rated? Both, a 35W or a higher rated HID kit use more ampere at start up than normal bulbs. Also the HID headlight bulbs must match the ballasts capacity.

did a short search on the wiring myself and found this:
Porsche Headlight Retrofit [from CAD, prototyping to finish)
Porsche Headlight Retrofit [from CAD, prototyping to finish)

Wow, that's not how it should be wired in general, because Xenon HIDs suck more amperes than standard headlamps, especially when they start up. That's why in general there is an additional relay with an additional fuse that are both adjusted to the higher ampere consumption, especially at the start up of the headlamps.

That means the ballasts are switched by the cars light relay which is switched by the light switch. Additionally there are the headlight fuses of the car.

If the light switch would not work, the headlight would not try to ignite. The headlights are not switched by the headlight switch itself, they are switched by the light relays.

Because of the fact that the headlights try to ignite i would say the ballasts are both gone or you have a wiring problem at the ballasts, or they didn't get enough ampere to start up.

Additional question:
Do the normal headlights work in your car?

Regards, Markus

PS: the wiring diagrams for ROW, USA and Canada differ a bit when it comes to headlights. Canada for example has additional relays for daytime running lights.
Hi Markus,

The thread that you posted is the HID conversion that I have, Mine are gen 1 (before Pelican Parts sold them).

Unfortunately, I do not have the old headlights so I cannot test to see if they work. Perhaps I can find another owner nearby that can help me.

Thanks, John
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Old 06-12-2016, 07:38 AM   #13
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Hello John,

if you would have the option to test the light with a standard headlight, i think that would be the easiest way to test, because than you could easily see if the light works.

If a standard headlight doesn't work, it's more a light switch, relay or connection problem. But i'm pretty shure a standard headlight will work.

If a standard headlight works, it's a ballast or a power (ampere) / connection problem.

Hope that helps
Regards, Markus
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Old 06-12-2016, 07:59 AM   #14
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Marcus; There is more to this story. Just so all info is considered, here is another piece of the problem in the other thread.

Headlight Questions

http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/61951-help-battery-issues.html

Don't know how a massive current draw by the headlights could not blow a fuse, but there seems to be a connection.

Last edited by 911monty; 06-12-2016 at 08:20 AM. Reason: add link
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Old 06-12-2016, 08:55 AM   #15
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Before trashing the sw completely, it might be worth taking apart and cleaning with contact cleaner. i had the same issue, cleaned and massaged sw-Ok. Don't use WD-40.
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Old 06-12-2016, 11:39 AM   #16
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@Markus - the initial draw per headlight is similar to what the hallogen run onto constant. Luckily HID settles down to a mediocre 3.2amp 2secs after a cold-start. Having that low constant consumption is what's advantageous long term over the traditional hallogen - I'm guessing! For info; you rate at 30amp on the boxster headlight circuit so I wouldn't worry regardless of how you'd install two hid ballasts. Those combined drawing 9~10amps at cold starts

Think your cigar lighter is pulling something like 22amps lolll Go Go Boxsters forever!

@John - Thanks for your pm and the heads up on your thread

1. try to identify the ballast's POS + NEG and connect this directly onto a 12VDC source to see if they ignite. Not many ways to do this, either by opening the oem back cover of the headlight and un-shielding the ballast connector itself, or the easy way: use a pair of alligator clips and feed 12vdc to the corresponding headlight pins.

If the ballasts ignite on standalone current, my advice is to take the car to a garage equipped with car electrical testing tools. Unless of course you are confident with troubleshooting Porsche related electrical problems, then by all means. As mentioned by others, the first place to look is that ignition switch. They do have a few glitches those switches, not only one!. e.g. clean the circular connectors for one with alcohol or acetone.

Note: If it happens to be that mighty ignition switch being dead, double check around as I remember seeing that those were also introduced to Audi or Volks, or both maybe. Meaning the part is widely available and twice cheaper than the original porsche part.

let us know if you need help mate, luck there
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Old 06-12-2016, 12:03 PM   #17
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Marcus; There is more to this story. Just so all info is considered, here is another piece of the problem in the other thread.

Headlight Questions

http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/61951-help-battery-issues.html

Don't know how a massive current draw by the headlights could not blow a fuse, but there seems to be a connection.
Hello 911monty,

thanks – so maybe we have more than one symptom / one problem.

@jpc763: 13,8 Volt is the correct voltage value when engine is running. Seems that generator and regulator are healthy. Problem with the starter battery could be a upcoming short cell circuit of one battery cell. Means the battery collapses under load.

@Nine8Six: Good that you're back on this forum!

Did you see in jpc763's video that the HIDs tried to start. Why would they do that if the headlight switch is not working? Bad connection? As far as i know there is a relay between switch and headlamps.

Regards, Markus

Last edited by Smallblock454; 06-12-2016 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 06-12-2016, 12:26 PM   #18
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Marcus - wow thanks for pointing the vid, missed it.

yea that looks like there aren't enough current reaching the igniters (intermittent current). Mind you... both sides failing at the same time is a chance on a X billion if you ask me. hence why I suspect other electrical issues.

Whether the ign switch or not, who knows. That'd surely be the first thing I'd clean and test re-fit before. Having the ballasts igniters connected onto a direct 12vdc source would rule them out, not the switch however.

RE relay, aren't those old style mechanical relays? Possible but again I'd be surprised
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Last edited by Nine8Six; 06-12-2016 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 06-12-2016, 02:45 PM   #19
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Well I did not make any progress on this today. I had to replace the washing machine bearings! The spin cycle sounded like a jet taking off. That was a 4 hour job as you have to take *everything* off of the washer to get to the bearings!

@Nine8Six - Are you talking the ignition switch or the headlight switch?

I will try to hook the ballast of one of the HIDs to my portable jump starter. Will that work?

https://www.amazon.com/Schumacher-PSJ-1812-ProSeries-Starter-Portable/dp/B002J8LMVC

Thanks, John

Last edited by jpc763; 06-12-2016 at 02:53 PM.
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Old 06-12-2016, 03:24 PM   #20
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I take it you've seen better days. Wanted to cheer up but failed after reading your washing machine werks.

I meant both the ignition switch and the light switch while at it. Get the light switch clean first and literally change the ignition switch if you can. Normally (I'm not a pro) any gizmo flashing or acting up is in most cases related to the ignition switch - or a bad battery.

Also voltage regulator at load (>14.5v?) few things to check. Not fun I know :/

RE your Amazonian charging device... man that's a resuscitation kit. The advert says "1800 Peak Amps"... sure would work for a heart attack lolll. Don't know mate. I'd just take the car battery 12vdc source if you got nothing else. Needs a constant-voltage DC PSU (preferably 12v) with 5~6amp rating min so if this resuscitation kit reads in the manual that you can do it then just use that.

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