IMS Replacement Gone Bad - at my dealer!

[kjc2050]

OK, first, I'm not naming the dealer, so don't bother asking. Local dealer, excellent reputation, Shop Foreman is highly regarded by the local PCA chapter.

I brought my 986 S to a this dealer a week and a half ago for an LN IMS-B installation, RMS, and new clutch.

I was supposed to take delivery yesterday, but my service advisor called and said "it was making a sound they didn't like" and they were going to pull the transmission again to check it out.

Today he called and informed me that the engine was out of timing after the IMS-B installation, and that several valves were bent when they restarted the engine. They're going to replace the valves, and repair any damage; he mentioned "machine shop" when he was updating me. He also said they were going to pull the cylinder head.

So... none of this is on my dime and they've promised to make things 100% right, but what questions should I ask and what should I be concerned about???

[rexcramer]

How long are they going to warranty the engine for? Are they going to split the cases and check the bottom end bearings and the con rods? How many miles on the engine now? That sucks, sorry to hear.

[Jager]

Ask them if they locked the crank at TDC and the cam on bank 1 before pulling the bearing.

[kjc2050]

Originally Posted by Jager

Ask them if they locked the crank at TDC and the cam on bank 1 before pulling the bearing.

I asked about locking the cams, but I don't think the service advisor is all that familiar with the process. I'll have to talk to the shop foreman.

rexcramer, 30K on the engine.

Getting the IMS bearing replaced seemed like a good idea at the time. Bearing was dual row. I don't know its condition; I'm betting it was in good shape.

[Timco]

Wow. Did mine at my shop. Locked crank, both cams. Had to buy 4 new cam port plugs. Easy as pie.

That really sucks. Really sorry to hear that, man. Best of luck.

[rexcramer]

That motor has/had a lot of life left in it. I hope they will indemnify you for future issues. Hold their feet to the fire. Best of luck.

[Smallblock454]

Hello kjc2050,

i would ask them to do a detailed photo documentary and also i would insist on seeing the opened engine in detail. If you have a lot of bended valves, in general you'll have damaged valve seats, or maybe even damaged cylinder heads. Also if you'll have marks in the pistons and their structure can be damaged.

If you have damaged heads, head seats and pistons this is a conplete engine rebuilt and not a "i quickly replace all bended valves for you and everything will be fine blabla" job.

Regards, Markus

[Jamesp]

The valves (steel) are bent because the pistons (aluminum) crashed into them meaning the pistons are damaged. I would call them scrap at this point. The pistons also saw loads that they are not designed for which calls into question everything connected to them, the rod bearings, rods, and main bearings, even the crank. The effect on the engine is exactly what is seen with an IMS bearing failure. I'd be looking for an extended warranty on this work at a minimum. I don't think it would be unreasonable to request a complete tear down all the way to the crank to inspect for damage. The shop will lose money in this case, but it is their screw up and they need to make it right at this point and not worry about profit.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Jamesp

The valves (steel) are bent because the pistons (aluminum) crashed into them meaning the pistons are damaged. I would call them scrap at this point. The pistons also saw loads that they are not designed for which calls into question everything connected to them, the rod bearings, rods, and main bearings, even the crank. The effect on the engine is exactly what is seen with an IMS bearing failure. I'd be looking for an extended warranty on this work at a minimum. I don't think it would be unreasonable to request a complete tear down all the way to the crank to inspect for damage. The shop will lose money in this case, but it is their screw up and they need to make it right at this point and not worry about profit.

Kind of like this:

[Timco]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Kind of like this:

Just run some Sea Foam through it. That will clear right up.

[eallga72]

Sounds like the engine is done, if it is would be asking for new short block.

[Gelbster]

" Local dealer, excellent reputation, Shop Foreman is highly regarded by the local PCA chapter."
But the mechanic who did the work did not know the single most important task is to lock the cams correctly.
This is why I favor using a small .local M96 Indie who is recommended by your friends on this Forum.
Suggest you research the issues of repairing an M96 after such damage. It may be better to get a good used engine installed.That may exceed the value of the car. Hope you are getting some good legal/tech advice?

[Qmulus]

Originally Posted by Jager

Ask them if they locked the crank at TDC and the cam on bank 1 before pulling the bearing.

I think that we all know the real answer to that question.

My guess is they gave the job to a junior tech who likely never did it before or a more senior guy that thought he could cheat it and not lock the cams. I have seen techs get away with it to save time. Looks like that guy lost. As someone who would never do well at flat rate on cars, that stuff makes me cringe...

[san rensho]

Dealer made this mess? Dealer owes you a porsche remanufactured motor with a warranty.

[911monty]

Man this is the stuff nightmares are made of.....

[thstone]

Bent valves indicate that serious damage was done - especially if the engine was operated long enough for someone to say that "it was making a sound they didn't like".

You know that the tech ran it for awhile before he told the shop manager. Then they ran it for awhile trying to figure out what the problem was. Then the engine was probably run more as they verified that it was out of time.

I wouldn't accept anything less than a replacement engine. This isn't s stripped spark plug thread in a head that is a simple, fairly reliable, and well understood mechanical fix. You're looking at most of an engine rebuild. How are you going to explain an engine rebuild due to dealer caused damage when you try to re-sell the car? As soon as a buyer hears "re-built damaged engine", they will take $$$$'s off the asking price.

[Giller]

I would start collecting your facts around what causes this damage. Dealer might claim the damage was pre-exisiting and had nothing to do with IMS change. It will be up to you to prove they were negligent. That can be tough on an older car.

[nieuwhzn]

Ugh, ugh, ugly, idiot mechanic. This is st least a total tear down of the engine. Check tolerances on the crankshaft bearings, rods, pistons. Check for cylinder marking, valve seat damage, etc., etc. Dealer is better off getting you a recertified engine.

[kjc2050]

Originally Posted by Giller

I would start collecting your facts around what causes this damage. Dealer might claim the damage was pre-exisiting and had nothing to do with IMS change. It will be up to you to prove they were negligent. That can be tough on an older car.

No, this isn't the case. They are accepting responsibility and there's no question that they caused the damage.

[Flavor 987S]

Originally Posted by san rensho

Dealer made this mess? Dealer owes you a porsche remanufactured motor with a warranty.

I agree. And it's probably the fastest solution. They owe you for "loss of use" too. So, the faster they get it done, the better for them and you.