Metal flakes in oil - Page 2 - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

Bobiam · 05-13-2016, 12:12 PM

Some very good comments here........

So, to summarize, if metal chips are found, do a total engine rebuild, discover and correct the source, and hope the chips have not caused any serious damage.

As for the rest of us, do a precautionary IMS bearing change before chips appear or the bearing disintegrates.

Further advice????

JFP in PA · 05-13-2016, 12:13 PM

I'm right in the middle of doing our first IMS Solution Dual Row, and you should have seen the owner while we were pulling the sump cover and filter looking for metal during the pre install inspection (there was absolutely none). He looked like he was about to have kittens at any moment, and after we pronounced the car suitable to retrofit, he had to go sit down for a bit. He later told me that waiting for our verdict was worse than when his first kid was born.

You have to be careful and do exactly what is right with these engines, and the dammed things will likely run forever. Cut corners, or do something that you know is wrong, and you will end up spending a lot of money for no apparent reason.

JFP in PA · 05-13-2016, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobiam

As for the rest of us, do a precautionary IMS bearing change before chips appear or the bearing disintegrates.

Further advice????

The IMS retrofit is designed to be a precautionary step (as in before the bearing starts to go), not a reactive one. If there is already metal, and in particularly ferrous grit, you would be advised to stop there until you know why, and repair that before doing a retrofit.

The cheapest IMS retrofit (done by a shop) is nearly half the cost of a replacement engine, if you guess wrong, you end up spending more than you needed to in the first place, and ending up nowhere.

GTsilber · 05-13-2016, 04:32 PM

Wow tons of info here, not what I wanted to hear but not much I can do about that. So the consensus is that if any sort of metal fragments are found in the oil, don't drive and find the source of the metal? Is there anything else I can do to try and isolate the source?

Man this sucks, but not as bad as if my engine blew. Can someone recommend an m96 mechanic in South Florida?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

JFP in PA · 05-13-2016, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTsilber

Wow tons of info here, not what I wanted to hear but not much I can do about that. So the consensus is that if any sort of metal fragments are found in the oil, don't drive and find the source of the metal? Is there anything else I can do to try and isolate the source?

Man this sucks, but not as bad as if my engine blew. Can someone recommend an m96 mechanic in South Florida?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

When you find metal bits, two things are critical: First, is there a lot of it, or just a flake or two? All engine's shed metal in small quantities, but if there is a lot of metal, there is a problem somewhere. Second, what kind of metal is it? Small amounts of non ferrous bits again is not unusual in a nearly all alloy engine, but if the bits are ferrous (can be picked up with a magnet), it is coming from something critical (cams, valve springs, oil pump, cranks shaft, etc.) which should not be ignored, particularly if it is in quantity. Running or driving the car further would not be advisable as the problem is not going to heal, and the circulating debris is eventually get to something really essential, like rod or crank bearing shells, which will put a sudden strain on your wallet.

jdraupp · 05-13-2016, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Man this sucks, but not as bad as if my engine blew. Can someone recommend an m96 mechanic in South Florida?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Theres a little known guy named pedro Bonilla. He's good.

steved0x · 05-13-2016, 06:43 PM

Eric Baker from flat 6 gallery (or similar name) is down that way too.

GTsilber · 05-13-2016, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

When you find metal bits, two things are critical: First, is there a lot of it, or just a flake or two? All engine's shed metal in small quantities, but if there is a lot of metal, there is a problem somewhere. Second, what kind of metal is it? Small amounts of non ferrous bits again is not unusual in a nearly all alloy engine, but if the bits are ferrous (can be picked up with a magnet), it is coming from something critical (cams, valve springs, oil pump, cranks shaft, etc.) which should not be ignored, particularly if it is in quantity. Running or driving the car further would not be advisable as the problem is not going to heal, and the circulating debris is eventually get to something really essential, like rod or crank bearing shells, which will put a sudden strain on your wallet.

The amount of metal is minimal, it appears to be non ferrous for the most part. The size/shape of the metal looks like broken splinter fragments from a cnc machine - little dots...you really have to look for it to notice it. I will try to get some better pics tomorrow with scale. There also appears to be some similar size plastic fragments in there as well - which is why I'm thinking it could be the timing chain or IMS bearing...I am sending my oil out for analysis tomorrow.

The car doesn't run rough, no other codes or obvious faults that I've noticed from the engine - but then again, failures appear to occur out of the blue without any warning. Any other info that I can provide to help with the diagnosis let me know...thanks for your help!

Gelbster · 05-13-2016, 07:39 PM

If the plastic is black or brown - probably the timing chain 'ramps'
Save the debris by filtering then wash in gasoline. Dry on a white paper towel.Then you will be able to see the color of the debris.

RichRobby · 05-17-2016, 12:03 AM

Very interesting topic, especially for a new owner such as me and frightened witless by the AOS and IMS discussions. The car is a 3.2S on 60,000 miles.

So, the car I have has a dripping drain / sump plug so I have to swap it out with a new plug and washer, it's only done 1000 miles since the, last owner oil change and I was thinking of draining the oil and re-using it again / or just trying to swap the plug quickly without draining (is that possible?)

The question is - is it best to to drain and replace the filter and then dissect the filter and check for metal fragments in both the filter and the oil - and then re-use the oil if clean?

Does it do any good or does it just lead to more worry and more paranoia? Is it better to be happy and ignorant because the question is - what do you do if you do see a little metal - opinion here is divided.

By the way, I am swapping to a magnetic drain plug so that's feeding my paranoia in itself.

tommy583 · 05-17-2016, 02:04 AM

I would just use new oil. Trying to replace the plug without losing much oil will be an adventure. The oil comes out of these cars FAST! To check the oil for metal with minimum oil loss, you could remove the filter. The filter is above the sump, so the only oil you will lose is what's in the filter housing. Just to be safe use new oil.

linderpat · 05-17-2016, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobiam

Some very good comments here........

So, to summarize, if metal chips are found, do a total engine rebuild, discover and correct the source, and hope the chips have not caused any serious damage.

As for the rest of us, do a precautionary IMS bearing change before chips appear or the bearing disintegrates.

Further advice????

Yes, that is correct - do the fix before metal appears. Although this was already answered more than once in this thread and elsewhere numerous times, in simple English - waste of time and money to do the IMS bearing change once metal particles are found in the oil filter (or on the mag plug). Horse has already left the barn.

If you don't have the funds or inclination to pull the motor and fix or replace it, then simply drive it like you stole it, but keep the AAA card handy.