Metal flakes in oil - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

GTsilber · 05-07-2016, 08:28 AM

I just changed my oil last week and put about 200 miles in the car since. Today, decided to drop the filter and just inspect the oil for any abnormalities. When I changed the oil last week, there were a few plastic and metal flakes, not pieces, in the filter. But after dropping the filter again there seems to be ALOT more metal in the bottom of the drain container- looked like the milky way.

Here's a pic, hard to get a good angle but you can see that when I tilt the pan the metal glimmers in the sun...thoughts?

2004 box s, 6 speed, 88k miles

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Timco · 05-07-2016, 09:16 AM

Did you use a new filter with last oil change? Open it up? Time for a magnetic oil drain plug.

Test oil for presence of antifreeze of it looks milky.

GTsilber · 05-07-2016, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timco

Did you use a new filter with last oil change? Open it up? Time for a magnetic oil drain plug.

Test oil for presence of antifreeze of it looks milky.

Used a new oil filter for the change. Already using a LN magnetic oil plug, but I stripped it

No coolant in oil, just tested. I think I'm going to get the ims replacement - possibility of buying a new engine doesn't sound great. What else could it be, variocam?

JFP in PA · 05-07-2016, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTsilber

Used a new oil filter for the change. Already using a LN magnetic oil plug, but I stripped it

No coolant in oil, just tested. I think I'm going to get the ims replacement - possibility of buying a new engine doesn't sound great. What else could it be, variocam?

As you already have metal in the oil, and if it is ferrous, replacing the IMS would be a waste of time and money as the metal will just kill the new bearing.

thstone · 05-07-2016, 10:38 AM

I see those little teeny tiny sparkles (when the light hits the oil just right) when I change oil on all of my cars and have never worried because there are only two options: (1) tear down the engine to find the source.; (2) do nothing.

It seems like it would be hard to justify tearing down an engine because of these microscopic metal particles, but its your car and your budget so you will have to make whatever decision you feel is right.

If you're really worried, have the oil tested and then you'll know exactly what is in the oil.

For reference, this is what a real problem looks like:

GTsilber · 05-07-2016, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thstone

I see those little teeny tiny sparkles (when the light hits the oil just right) when I change oil on all of my cars and have never worried because there are only two options: (1) tear down the engine to find the source.; (2) do nothing.

It seems like it would be hard to justify tearing down an engine because of these microscopic metal particles, but its your car and your budget so you will have to make whatever decision you feel is right.

If you're really worried, have the oil tested and then you'll know exactly what is in the oil.

For reference, this is what a real problem looks like:

Thanks thstone - that pic definitely helps determine a serious issue. At this point i may just be overreacting, as I'm not familiar with seeing metal in my oil...I always assumed it was a serious issue. Maybe this is just the beginning of something more severe? I will continue to monitor the oil but are there any other signs/symptoms I should look out for?

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Gelbster · 05-07-2016, 01:05 PM

Probably wise to drop the sump plate to inspect. If you have a serious problem, there will be material on the bottom of the sump plate also.

stelan · 05-07-2016, 02:39 PM

There will always be microscopic pieces of emtal in the oil as this is what wear is, but In my opinion if these particles are visible to the human eye then that is more than regular wear

Bootlegger · 05-07-2016, 05:09 PM

My simple minded advice... Buy a Filter Magnet and see how much you catch in the filter. Then make a decision on worrying or enjoying your drives but on a lighter wallet. Coin flip?

j.fro · 05-07-2016, 05:25 PM

Send a sample away for an oil analysis. They'll tell you exactly what's in your oil and add insight. FWIW, I use Blackstone labs.

GTsilber · 05-07-2016, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j.fro

Send a sample away for an oil analysis. They'll tell you exactly what's in your oil and add insight. FWIW, I use Blackstone labs.

Just requested a sample kit, will post what the findings are.

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Bobiam · 05-12-2016, 09:37 AM

Analysis poo........ Time for a IMS bearing change. I would not drive that car AT ALL until its done.

GTsilber · 05-13-2016, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobiam

Analysis poo........ Time for a MS bearing change. I would not drive that car AT ALL until its done.

I have my doubts about driving the car as well - conflicted.

JFP in PA · 05-13-2016, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobiam

Analysis poo........ Time for a IMS bearing change. I would not drive that car AT ALL until its done.

The quickest way to destroy a new, and expensive, IMS bearing retrofit is to do it on a car that already has metal circulating in the oil. If this car was in my shop, we would decline to do the retrofit.

Bobiam · 05-13-2016, 08:45 AM

Most people having an IMS issue get only a few seconds warning if at all. Finding those chips may very well be a blessing. The car will need an IMS bearing and clutch eventually. Do it now. Even if suspicions are wrong, the car will be worth thousands more and won't be as difficult to sell some day in the future. And you can go back to sleeping at night!!!!!

Gelbster · 05-13-2016, 11:54 AM

The paramount problem is not the IMSB. That is a relatively easy fix.
How are you going to remove the debris from the oil circulation system. Changing the IMSB,oil and filter is not a solution.No amount of flushing is effective. It lasts a few hundred miles maybe a little more .Ask me how I know!
Be very wary of buying a car with a recent IMSB change. The 'clever' flippers may not even tell you the IMSB change has been done. But you'll find out soon enough !
Just google "debris oil raby"

Bobiam · 05-13-2016, 12:12 PM

Some very good comments here........

So, to summarize, if metal chips are found, do a total engine rebuild, discover and correct the source, and hope the chips have not caused any serious damage.

As for the rest of us, do a precautionary IMS bearing change before chips appear or the bearing disintegrates.

Further advice????

JFP in PA · 05-13-2016, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobiam

As for the rest of us, do a precautionary IMS bearing change before chips appear or the bearing disintegrates.

Further advice????

The IMS retrofit is designed to be a precautionary step (as in before the bearing starts to go), not a reactive one. If there is already metal, and in particularly ferrous grit, you would be advised to stop there until you know why, and repair that before doing a retrofit.

The cheapest IMS retrofit (done by a shop) is nearly half the cost of a replacement engine, if you guess wrong, you end up spending more than you needed to in the first place, and ending up nowhere.

linderpat · 05-17-2016, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobiam

Some very good comments here........

So, to summarize, if metal chips are found, do a total engine rebuild, discover and correct the source, and hope the chips have not caused any serious damage.

As for the rest of us, do a precautionary IMS bearing change before chips appear or the bearing disintegrates.

Further advice????

Yes, that is correct - do the fix before metal appears. Although this was already answered more than once in this thread and elsewhere numerous times, in simple English - waste of time and money to do the IMS bearing change once metal particles are found in the oil filter (or on the mag plug). Horse has already left the barn.

If you don't have the funds or inclination to pull the motor and fix or replace it, then simply drive it like you stole it, but keep the AAA card handy.

JFP in PA · 05-13-2016, 12:13 PM

I'm right in the middle of doing our first IMS Solution Dual Row, and you should have seen the owner while we were pulling the sump cover and filter looking for metal during the pre install inspection (there was absolutely none). He looked like he was about to have kittens at any moment, and after we pronounced the car suitable to retrofit, he had to go sit down for a bit. He later told me that waiting for our verdict was worse than when his first kid was born.

You have to be careful and do exactly what is right with these engines, and the dammed things will likely run forever. Cut corners, or do something that you know is wrong, and you will end up spending a lot of money for no apparent reason.