Ims replacement life

[DWBOX2000]

Next question, I dropped my car off this morning. Mechanic is recommended by LN. Very nice guy. He mentioned something about checking the pads that my friend who was there says keeps tension on the timing chains. "Deviation". Something like that. With my lack of explaining it, if you can tell what I am talking about; is this a common problem? He mentioned the ims and the pads being the big issues with these motors. Otherwise he spoke very highly of the Boxsters. Being on a limited budget, now I am nervous about this issue that I had never heard about 2 hours prior. It's not a matter of trust, he passed my sniff test. I am just curious the likely hood of this bring an issue. Any thoughts from you guys that do this for a living? Thanks.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by DWBOX2000

Next question, I dropped my car off this morning. Mechanic is recommended by LN. Very nice guy. He mentioned something about checking the pads that my friend who was there says keeps tension on the timing chains. "Deviation". Something like that. With my lack of explaining it, if you can tell what I am talking about; is this a common problem? He mentioned the ims and the pads being the big issues with these motors. Otherwise he spoke very highly of the Boxsters. Being on a limited budget, now I am nervous about this issue that I had never heard about 2 hours prior. It's not a matter of trust, he passed my sniff test. I am just curious the likely hood of this bring an issue. Any thoughts from you guys that do this for a living? Thanks.

On five chain engines, there are a set of small wear pads in between the cams which wear and tend to cause the cam deviation values to wander out of spec:



This is a common problem, and should be addressed if your deviation values are outside the +/- 6 degrees spec range.

[DWBOX2000]

Ugh! Well if that is an issue, I am cooked. Thanks.

[Shred]

As others have said and lots of info on the LN Eng. site.
Use a recommended installer when possible so they do a pre-qualification on your car, to see if it is even fit for a new IMS. If you have the money, do the IMS solution.
If there is already debris in the engine and the current IMS is failing, it is already too late.

I went with the Single Row even though at the garage I use, (apart from LN and Flat6 Innov) was the only recommended 'Solution' installer at the time.

The reason was, by the time I will need another IMS changed out for another piece of mind, I would surely need a new clutch or 2 by then. Also, IMS is not the only thing that can cause catastrophic engine failure on the M96. Can always spend the money on another water pump for example

It really depends on you, how you see your car and usage

[smshirk]

I just cant understand people bashing Jake Raby. before he and L&N brought their first product to market, M96 owners had one choice for any internal engine problem. A total engine replacement from a dealer at whatever cost they determined. We were at their mercy. If you didn't buy new or CPO you had no choice but pay the 15k to 25k depending on engine type, dealer, or your relationship with the dealer. I had a 97 986 that had 120k when I sold it. It never had an IMS failure, but I Was mindful and changed the oil every 5k just because I thought it was a good idea. Then I had a 2000 996 tip, because there was some evidence the tips had fewer IMS failures. Not sure that is true, but at the time it seemed like a good idea. I sold the 996 with 80k and bought an m3. A great car but I missed having the porsche. I heard about jakes fix being tested so i found a fairly low mileage 986s and sent it to jake for the full high performance treatment. It wasn't cheap, but i can attest to the FACT that once you become a customer pf Jakes you are a customer that is treated as you might have been 75 years ago. I haven't had to worry about that engine blowing up, but even before he finished testing the solution, I had one in my Boxster. Saying the car is amazing is to do the motor an injustice. It runs like a newer 3.8. I bought my original 996 back. The guy I sold it to had the original ceramic bearing replacement done at my suggestion as soon as he bought it. In fact I knocked off 1k from sales price to encourage him. It now has almost 100k and doing great. After 3 m96 cars I have had zero IMS failures but during the close to 20 years since getting my first one, i have known a lot of guys who did and either spent as much as I did for the full high performance upgrade or sold the car for nothing. If what I hear is true, there aren't many places you can buy a replacement engine
Anymore. Im not sure that is true, but my regular indy says he is spending a lot of time trying to save engines that need to be replaced because the owner cant afford a rebuilt dealer engine And he cant find replacements that
Dont cost more than the car is worth.

If This makes me a minion, then I own it! I consider myself lucky to be a customer of flat6. Anyone who owns any M96 car owes jake a debt just for what he has done for the marque, whether or not you buy into his products. What little value the cars have is due primarily to jake and L&N. Porsche would never have opened the first case if their customers still had no other options. I sold my 996 at market value of 20k in 2008. I bought it back in 2015 for 19k with 1k knocked off for 2 worn rear shocks. Had Jake not introduced the IMS fixes that car wouldn't be worth 10k right now and it very well could have been junked for parts, as would be a lot of these cars

[DWBOX2000]

The garage is recommended by LN based on LN's website. He will let me know if I need a clutch. He said hopefully after it is done, I won't have to go back in for 10 years. This is pre inspection of course. I will find out more on Monday. I just did a good dead so hopefully karma will prevail.

[nowacuein]

Originally Posted by 10/10ths

......I'm new to the Porsche universe.



I'm 50 years old and have owned a Miata for 23 years.



I decided I wanted a Boxster.



I did a LOT of research. I actually work in the auto industry and have a good knowledge of auto manufacturing and how these vehicles work.



I decided that I wanted to own a 2004 "50 Years of 550 Spyder" edition Boxster S. I discovered the IMS issue. I found a car and bought her and then shipped her to Jake Raby at Flat 6 Innovations. If you go to his web site you can see the various preventative maintenance packages he offers.



I asked him to install his "IMS Solution", a new clutch, flywheel, water pump, rear main seal, spark plugs, serpentine belt and pulleys, Air/Oil Separator, and all three cam chain tensioners.



Yeah. A freaking boatload of money. He sent a great driver who flat bedded my car there and back for me.



Worth...Every....Penny.



A bargain at twice the price.



My wife and I have driven the car on four, cross-country road trips in the nine months I've owned the car. We didn't have to worry about the car.



IMS solution "expensive"? No. It's PRICELESS.



The IMS Solution in an oil fed, plain bearing. ZERO moving parts. Nothing to fail. It will outlast the engine and can actually be transferred to ANOTHER engine.



Just save up and INVEST in the IMS Solution.



Expensive? How much do you think a new engine or new Boxster costs? Not to mention your time and trouble and being without a ride.



Just do it and start enjoying life.



Good luck.



Welcome to the Boxster world. I'm NEVER selling this car. I love her, she makes me smile, and my wife and I are having more fun on our road trips in her.



Cheers!

What did you pay for the "IMS Solution"?

[jdraupp]

Originally Posted by nowacuein

What did you pay for the "IMS Solution"?

Probably the same price that's quoted on flat 6s website. About 3750 not including the other things Jake did while it was in there.

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by particlewave

Also worthy of note is that FACT that LN bearings do fail regularly, but every time someone posts online about it, Jake Raby and a few of his minions immediately attack the poster and blame him, the engine or the installer. Sometimes to the point that the poster removes the post completely. Over the years, I've witnessed this behavior on at least half a dozen occasions. Very shady stuff...

I'll never buy an LN bearing.

Anything can fail... But when something goes south the posted will seldom post the full story. Like the guy that had a dealer do the retrofit procedure, and they didn't even change the engine oil, which had been in service for a year prior! Or the technician that was using impact tools to tighten the center IMS stud nut...

Within the next 45 days or so the amount of LN IMS Retrofit components sold will break the 28,000 mark; with that many retrofits being done, all over the world, and mostly by those who are NOT Certified Installers that have been trained, things will happen.

For the record, there have been zero failures of the IMS Solution. This is a fact.

To date there have been ZERO failures of any IMSR products that were installed by a Certified Installer. This is a fact.

Also, we have performed over 500 IMSR procedures here under my roof, including the very first one. To date we have not had a single failure, of any of the technologies that LN sells. This is also a fact.

The installation DOES matter, and too many shops pay techs on flat rate, where they have to race the clock to make a decent pay check at the end of the week. This promotes negligence, hastiness, and typically does not allow for enough time to inspect and "qualify" an engine prior to the IMSR procedure. That takes 4-6 hours here, but most shops want the job done, and running in 10 hours. Its a recipe for disaster that no one has control over.

That said, you'll not find a single direct customer of ours that has a complaint, or whines on these forums. Our customers are like Smshirk, and they appreciate what we do for them. The whiners, and haters are always the guys that take issue with something, and have not spent a single dollar here. I have no idea why they do what they do, but I have to admit, it is entertaining.

[DWBOX2000]

Well I am glad I choose an installer off your website. I almost went with someone else but the guys on Pelican stressed installation.

Getting back to earlier post, no issue with chain pads, well within tolerance. Phew. Do need a new clutch so timing is good. Shop said car is in excellent shape except that some earlier knuckle head jacked up car by some arm or something on tranny. Said they will just try to bend back. Hopefully get back on Wednesday in time for Hershey.

[thom4782]

Originally Posted by particlewave

Also worthy of note is that FACT that LN bearings do fail regularly, but every time someone posts online about it, Jake Raby and a few of his minions immediately attack the poster and blame him, the engine or the installer. Sometimes to the point that the poster removes the post completely. Over the years, I've witnessed this behavior on at least half a dozen occasions. Very shady stuff...

I'll never buy an LN bearing.

Okay, now put facts behind your allegation that LN bearings 'regularly' fail.

Let's start with this. What do you mean by "regularly' - does it mean 50%, 25%, 10%, 1% or some other percentage of LN bearings have failed. My sense is that reasonable people would say 'regularly' means at least 10%.

But let's be conservative and say for argument sake that 'regularly' means 1%. Well that would mean at least 250 of the 25,000+ LN installations have failed. So who are these 250 people who allegedly experienced a LN bearing failures and why aren't their stories finding their way onto the forums. Could it be because LN bearing don't fail directly without some other intervening cause like left behind debris. Could it be you've vastly overstated your case?

Jake at least has stated the LN case in testable terms. So here's your opportunity to prove him wrong by putting some names and numbers on the table. Without testable facts, statements are just opinions

[Timco]

Originally Posted by thom4782

Okay, now put facts behind your allegation that LN bearings 'regularly' fail.

Let's start with this. What do you mean by "regularly' - does it mean 50%, 25%, 10%, 1% or some other percentage of LN bearings have failed. My sense is that reasonable people would say 'regularly' means at least 10%.

But let's be conservative and say for argument sake that 'regularly' means 1%. Well that would mean at least 250 of the 25,000+ LN installations have failed. So who are these 250 people who allegedly experienced a LN bearing failures and why aren't their stories finding their way onto the forums. Could it be because LN bearing don't fail directly without some other intervening cause like left behind debris. Could it be you've vastly overstated your case?

Jake at least has stated the LN case in testable terms. So here's your opportunity to prove him wrong by putting some names and numbers on the table. Without testable facts, statements are just opinions

He's an engineer. You wouldn't understand his reply.

[DWBOX2000]

For anyone keeping score, my 2000 S with a motor built in 98 had a dual row bearing. The mechanic said it had a bit of play but not bad. Bearing sent back to LN. Car has 50k. New rms seal,clutch kit and fly wheel also installed. For anyone on the south shore of MA, the shop was south shore auto works in Kingston. On LN's recommended list. They were great to work with and I will go back in the future.