Ims replacement life

[ltusler]

If you see metal particles in the oil its too late to change the bearing.

[particlewave]

Originally Posted by ltusler

If you see metal particles in the oil its too late to change the bearing.

If that were the case, then why would LN sell the IMS Guardian? By your statement, it is completely worthless marketing hype garbage. Not even close to true, but I see that you drank heavily of the JR brand kool-aid, so no point in further discussion.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by particlewave

If that were the case, then why would LN sell the IMS Gaurdian? By your statement, it is completely worthless marketing hype garbage. Not even close to true, but I see that you drank heavily of the JR brand kool-aid, so no point in further discussion.

The Guardian was targeted at the later (2005+) cars which could not be retrofitted in any case without a complete disassembly. Its purpose was to alert the owner to accumulating metal in the oil before the unit failed catastrophically, allowing some of the engine to be saved.

[DWBOX2000]

Thanks guys. All very helpful. I am having mine done next week. Wish me luck. I am paying someone else.

I think the conclusion is the 6 year is more a random warranty number than anything else. 75k will take me 20 years. Good stuff.

[Tcar]

Originally Posted by DWBOX2000

Thanks guys. All very helpful. I am having mine done next week. Wish me luck. I am paying someone else.

That's a good move.

Make sure you get the paperwork, warranty and the serial number of the bearing. (Check this before it is done. Also make sure you're not their first bearing.)
There is a 'sticker' with the LN serial number on it that can be placed on the driver's door jamb next to the VIN/Date sticker.

Will automatically add $2k + to the market value of your car.


I almost bought an '01 S from a guy that did his own IMS in his garage. Was a very, very nice car and the price reflected having the LN bearing.
But, he had no paperwork or even pictures of the process. Plus it was the only one he'd ever done.
So, I passed, as the only way I could be sure would be to pull the trans.
Nope.

[JayG]

Originally Posted by Tcar

That's a good move.

Will automatically add $2k + to the market value of your car.

you have any empirical data to back that up?

[Smallblock454]

Originally Posted by Tcar

Will automatically add $2k + to the market value of your car.

Very interesting. Well the kit i posted above is around 600 euros without installation tool kit and 800 euros (approx 900 usd) including installation tools. Pretty shure i get a rebate if i buy 10.

So, i should buy some 986 cars and do some ISMB changes. Could be a nice profit.

Or does maybe the new clutch, clutchplate, 2-mass flywheel and the IMSB update generate the 2.000 USD? Than this would be not that profitable.

Regards, Markus

[DWBOX2000]

I am doing for peace of mind. I didn't know about the serial # sticker. Thanks.

[thstone]

Originally Posted by Tcar

Will automatically add $2k + to the market value of your car.

Hmmm. From what I can discern, prices for 986's are nearly identical for cars with or without an IMS fix. Mileage, documented service history, and condition are the key factors that influence price and overwhelm whatever small contribution that an IMS fix might have on pricing.

And with over 200,000 Boxster's built and only 10,000 retrofit kits sold, there is still only about a 5% chance that a car has been updated - 95% still have the original IMS bearing.

[boxxster]

I have to say, with all the time I've spent on various car forums I've never seen a topic as contentious as the debate on what IMS bearing is best. I was doing a bit of research on what kit I should buy when I get around to doing the IMS and 95% of the information I came across was either uneducated opinion, conjecture, or just straight up bs. It was like wading through a steaming pile of crap to find that one piece of what I thought was reliable information. Interestingly enough, I went to a PCA approved shop in my area that has done many of these retrofits to see what the owner thought. I was ready to tell him to retrofit my car right then and there but instead he told me to change my oil frequently (5000km max) in the meantime and just do the IMS when it came time to do my clutch. He told me he's had several single row boxsters that have done over 200000km with no issues. The general impression I got from him was that the whole issue is overblown.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by thstone

Hmmm. From what I can discern, prices for 986's are nearly identical for cars with or without an IMS fix. Mileage, documented service history, and condition are the key factors that influence price and overwhelm whatever small contribution that an IMS fix might have on pricing.

And with over 200,000 Boxster's built and only 10,000 retrofit kits sold, there is still only about a 5% chance that a car has been updated - 95% still have the original IMS bearing.

The actual number of LN retrofits (all types) is closer to 20,000.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by thstone

Hmmm. From what I can discern, prices for 986's are nearly identical for cars with or without an IMS fix. Mileage, documented service history, and condition are the key factors that influence price and overwhelm whatever small contribution that an IMS fix might have on pricing.

And with over 200,000 Boxster's built and only 10,000 retrofit kits sold, there is still only about a 5% chance that a car has been updated - 95% still have the original IMS bearing.

The actual number of LN retrofits (all types) is closer to 20,000.

In the same sense that a car with a low mileage clutch and new tires may fetch more than an exactly similar car with a 80K clutch and nearly dead tires, buyers that recognize the cost to do a retrofit also recognize its value in a car already done. That said, there needs to be supporting documentation from the shop that did it, or you need to be able to see the oil line of the IMS Solution with the car on a lift before it hits home.

[Tcar]

Originally Posted by DWBOX2000

Thanks guys. All very helpful. I am having mine done next week. Wish me luck. I am paying someone else.

I think the conclusion is the 6 year is more a random warranty number than anything else. 75k will take me 20 years. Good stuff.

Make sure they give you the warranty sheet.
That the work order has the serial number of the bearing on it.

And that you get the driver's door jamb serial number sticker - most people put it by the VIN sticker.

[ltusler]

Originally Posted by particlewave

If that were the case, then why would LN sell the IMS Gaurdian? By your statement, it is completely worthless marketing hype garbage. Not even close to true, but I see that you drank heavily of the JR brand kool-aid, so no point in further discussion.

Other than it seems you have an ax to grind and don't know what you're talking about as JFP showed.

[particlewave]

Originally Posted by ltusler

Other than it seems you have an ax to grind and don't know what you're talking about as JFP showed.

Being an engineer, I know exactly what I'm talking about.

My point is that I've watched 3 rebuilds in which JR and your fellow fanboys said that it wouldn't work due to failed bearing debris. All 3 are still running. If caught early through due diligence and proper filter/magnet check (or with the Guardian), and with proper tear down and cleaning, the engine is completely salvageable. It just takes a competent and willing person.
The Guardian may not have "been designed" for the 986, but it sure is marketed as such and plenty of 986/996 owners use them for that exact reason.

Now, I've read rennlist for years and am very familiar with your posts. I've witnessed you attacking some that question JR, resorting to name calling and accusations like, "I bet you don't even have a Porsche". I will not debate technical details with someone that has exhibited both zero technical background and the propensity to start hurling insults when his weak argument with no actual technical basis breaks down in the face of intelligence.

So...I'm just going to add you to my very short block list. The 986forum is better without that type of behavior.
Have a nice day!

[Fintro11]

Originally Posted by ltusler

If you see metal particles in the oil its too late to change the bearing.

Wrong, friend had his dual row in for clutch / ims. There was a bunch of metal in the ims tube bearing was just about to go. They cleaned it out did a few low km oil changes its been a year and the car is fine

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Fintro11

Wrong, friend had his dual row in for clutch / ims. There was a bunch of metal in the ims tube bearing was just about to go. They cleaned it out did a few low km oil changes its been a year and the car is fine

Your friend 's experience is vastly in the minority. We have on several occasions declined to retrofit cars because metal was found during the pre-inspection process. Of those cars which were subsequently retrofitted by others, to date, none have survived. While some lived longer than others, they all eventually succumbed, mostly to bearing failures. The worst one did not make it 50 miles.

Retrofitting one of these cars that already has metal in the oil is to take on a very long odds scenario; a few may win, but most do not.

[10/10ths]

......I'm new to the Porsche universe.

I'm 50 years old and have owned a Miata for 23 years.

I decided I wanted a Boxster.

I did a LOT of research. I actually work in the auto industry and have a good knowledge of auto manufacturing and how these vehicles work.

I decided that I wanted to own a 2004 "50 Years of 550 Spyder" edition Boxster S. I discovered the IMS issue. I found a car and bought her and then shipped her to Jake Raby at Flat 6 Innovations. If you go to his web site you can see the various preventative maintenance packages he offers.

I asked him to install his "IMS Solution", a new clutch, flywheel, water pump, rear main seal, spark plugs, serpentine belt and pulleys, Air/Oil Separator, and all three cam chain tensioners.

Yeah. A freaking boatload of money. He sent a great driver who flat bedded my car there and back for me.

Worth...Every....Penny.

A bargain at twice the price.

My wife and I have driven the car on four, cross-country road trips in the nine months I've owned the car. We didn't have to worry about the car.

IMS solution "expensive"? No. It's PRICELESS.

The IMS Solution in an oil fed, plain bearing. ZERO moving parts. Nothing to fail. It will outlast the engine and can actually be transferred to ANOTHER engine.

Just save up and INVEST in the IMS Solution.

Expensive? How much do you think a new engine or new Boxster costs? Not to mention your time and trouble and being without a ride.

Just do it and start enjoying life.

Good luck.

Welcome to the Boxster world. I'm NEVER selling this car. I love her, she makes me smile, and my wife and I are having more fun on our road trips in her.

Cheers!

[DWBOX2000]

Wow, I have created a firestorm. I am going to do it just as insurance. I highly doubt the original ims will fail. Just so I sleep better at night, I would rather spend 2k now then have something happen and end up with a 3k paper weight as some have referenced. To me it is like buying additional insurance to cover expenses incase your out of work for an extended period of time due to an accident. Likely you will never really need but nice knowing you have it.
I do agree with Particle Wave that there is a lot of fear mongering going on and that this is no way as prevalent as one is led to believe. You can't open a porsche magazine without seeing ims replacement ads. It's business, I get that. From the volume, one would think it is a mass epidemic impacting all Boxsters. Just The past Excellence user guide did a whole write up on it. It's everywhere. I sometimes admire the folks who don't get caught up in the whole porsche world of magazines and chat sites. They just buy and drive without a care in the world. For me, I have no defense, I am a sucker for good advertisement, some might say a fool. Did I make the right choice? I would say time will tell, but likely it really won't.

[DWBOX2000]

Next question, I dropped my car off this morning. Mechanic is recommended by LN. Very nice guy. He mentioned something about checking the pads that my friend who was there says keeps tension on the timing chains. "Deviation". Something like that. With my lack of explaining it, if you can tell what I am talking about; is this a common problem? He mentioned the ims and the pads being the big issues with these motors. Otherwise he spoke very highly of the Boxsters. Being on a limited budget, now I am nervous about this issue that I had never heard about 2 hours prior. It's not a matter of trust, he passed my sniff test. I am just curious the likely hood of this bring an issue. Any thoughts from you guys that do this for a living? Thanks.