BMW...All cars to be electric in a decade..

[Timco]

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/3iy4vc/bmw_all_models_electric_within_decade_intends_to/


(RTTNews.com) - German luxury car giant Bayerische Motoren Werke AG or BMW Group (BAMXY, BAMXF, BMW.L) is looking to go all-electric over the next 10 years due to the upcoming stricter carbon emission laws. Virtually every BMW model would be converted to electric drivetrains, including range-extending engines and plug-in hybrids.

And then there's this issue...

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/09/07/toronto-hydro-chief-electric-car-upswing-would-crash-grid/

[Jamesp]

They can be very fast...

[thstone]

Hah! Did anyone really think that the oil companies where going to sit back and let electric cars gain a foothold in THEIR market?

As long as oil/gas is cheap (or until there is at least a doubling of battery energy density at the same cost) there will be no massive adoption of electric powered cars.

[dghii]

I love my golf cart! I'd think it'd be great if we saw electric vehicles mature and become a primary source of transportation.

I've noticed one weird thing...check out the price of a used Nissan Leaf, like an 2011 or 2012. They are very cheap ~$12K and predicted to be 40-50% cheaper in the next year.

If I can get a Leaf to mess with for $7K next year I may consider it. Heck, a nice used golf cart is $3-4K, why not get a car for a few bucks more!

No, it will not replace my Boxster S (or Alfa Spider, or M Roadster).

[Porsche9]

Originally Posted by dghii

I love my golf cart! I'd think it'd be great if we saw electric vehicles mature and become a primary source of transportation.

I've noticed one weird thing...check out the price of a used Nissan Leaf, like an 2011 or 2012. They are very cheap ~$12K and predicted to be 40-50% cheaper in the next year.

If I can get a Leaf to mess with for $7K next year I may consider it. Heck, a nice used golf cart is $3-4K, why not get a car for a few bucks more!

No, it will not replace my Boxster S (or Alfa Spider, or M Roadster).

No kidding on the price of used Leafs. Mighty tempting. The turn off for many is the need for a 220v hookup at home. Problem here in Phoenix is that their range when its hot is goes way down.

[Pdwight]

We are just not there yet, battery technology is way behind that curve...30 years maybe.....ten....no way in heck

[lkchris]

Not interested in the slightest in electric cars.

[particlewave]

If you guys were involved in the industry, you would be very interested and you would know that battery storage capacities are set to make a huge leap within the next 10 years. Huge...10-100x.
The only semi-valid argument from the pro-ICE crowd about the future of electric is the butt-hurt over loss of ICE sound. If they lived 115 years ago, they'd be the ones angry about those noisy horseless carriages. Advancement always moves forward, despite resistance from the "scared of change" crowd.

Electric power puts IC to shame on every front but storage capacity, and that table will tilt in the direction of electric soon. Think "super conductors" and "nano carbon".
There will be transition periods when ICE and electric power will be facing one another and ICE is going to lose. Very soon...

There is no debate, only logic. Mark my words.
That's it. I won't come back to this thread and argue with anyone as it's pointless.

[Jamesp]

Originally Posted by particlewave

Electric power puts IC to shame on every front but storage capacity, and that table will tilt in the direction of electric soon. Think "super conductors" and "nano carbon".
There will be transition periods when ICE and electric power will be facing one another and ICE is going to lose. Very soon...

There is no debate, only logic. Mark my words.

Take a look at model airplanes. The fuel for those engines is alcohol based. It has a lower BTU per pound mass than gasoline or diesel. The "gas" model airplane engines have been replaced by electric motors thanks to better rare earth magnets and lithium polymer battery technology. The BTU per lb mass of the electric propulsion system is sufficient to make the electric motors and batteries an attractive replacement. The curve being climbed is the BTU per pound mass curve. When electric motors and batteries bypass fuel tanks and ICEs in this measure the tide will turn and any ICE will be consigned to the dustbin with steam engines.

[Porsche9]

Originally Posted by particlewave

If you guys were involved in the industry, you would be very interested and you would know that battery storage capacities are set to make a huge leap within the next 10 years. Huge...10-100x.
The only semi-valid argument from the pro-ICE crowd about the future of electric is the butt-hurt over loss of ICE sound. If they lived 115 years ago, they'd be the ones angry about those noisy horseless carriages. Advancement always moves forward, despite resistance from the "scared of change" crowd.

Electric power puts IC to shame on every front but storage capacity, and that table will tilt in the direction of electric soon. Think "super conductors" and "nano carbon".
There will be transition periods when ICE and electric power will be facing one another and ICE is going to lose. Very soon...

There is no debate, only logic. Mark my words.

I don't like it but I know it's coming and sooner rather than later. I think the battery capacity issue will be resolved in the next 5 to 10 years but the infrasturcture to support electric cars will take longer. In the end it is an overall good thing especially if we can rid ourselves on the dependence of those that really don't like us. For me I will always like ICE over a electric motor just like I a steam locomotive over a diesel electriv locomotive. Both are dirty machines with many down sides but they are just a hellva lot more fun to play with.

[Perfectlap]

Obviously BMW are watching the Giga factories closely and are worried that Tesla will be eating their lunch (the educated wealthy) soon. If Tesla manage to reduce their per kilowatt hour cost substantially with mass production of their hardware the educated wealthy will be actively cross shopping every Tesla model with every BMW, Merc, Audi, Range Rover and Porsche. Once a well heeled buyer enjoys the red carpet Tesla treatment and experiences the "cool factor" of all the high tech bells and whistles of never having to deal with the gas station hassle, it will be hard for them to go back to the old way. BMW have no doubt done some internal studying of the educated wealthy and their greater interest in cutting edge technology.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by thstone

Hah! Did anyone really think that the oil companies where going to sit back and let electric cars gain a foothold in THEIR market?

As long as oil/gas is cheap (or until there is at least a doubling of battery energy density at the same cost) there will be no massive adoption of electric powered cars.

I don't about that. The way I see it gas prices will have to remain below their historical average for an unusually long period of time to keep the car buying market as loyally comitted to ICEs as in the past. And as we know, there is no market, oil or any other commodity for that matter, that stays at the low end indefinitely without a proportional spike to the high end at some point in the medium term. I think at some point Tesla, GM and Japan will deliver the illusive EV that the middle income household can afford. They'll likely do so at a loss but if there is a dramatic increase in EV's at that price point it's a whole new ball game. And of course the autos will pull strings from Washington to keep the subsidies flowing. Point being EVs may never become profitable for the autos but they'll have no choice but to chase the market share or potentially lose out on a future demographic that insist on EVs. You know the millenialls aren't going to be broke forever and they're the first generation to grow up with mass market adoption of technology. If cost is no longer a barrier these recent generations of buyers will come to expect electric technology in their cars.

[Ben006]

Originally Posted by particlewave

If you guys were involved in the industry, you would be very interested and you would know that battery storage capacities are set to make a huge leap within the next 10 years. Huge...10-100x.
The only semi-valid argument from the pro-ICE crowd about the future of electric is the butt-hurt over loss of ICE sound. If they lived 115 years ago, they'd be the ones angry about those noisy horseless carriages. Advancement always moves forward, despite resistance from the "scared of change" crowd.

Electric power puts IC to shame on every front but storage capacity, and that table will tilt in the direction of electric soon. Think "super conductors" and "nano carbon".
There will be transition periods when ICE and electric power will be facing one another and ICE is going to lose. Very soon...

There is no debate, only logic. Mark my words.
That's it. I won't come back to this thread and argue with anyone as it's pointless.

I won't argue ... because I'm 100% with you !
A lot of people I've talked to about electric cars have no idea of what they are talking about and as you said, 115 years ago, they would have been the angry ones against the petrol powered carriages...

Honnestly, as my boxster is a daily driver, I would really want it electric (with the same power).

My family owns the french equivalent of the nissan leaf (renault zoé, the exact same, but good looking), and despite some small defects, it's a real pleasure to drive !

So, I'm happy that I will see more electric cars in the near future !

Ben.

[leftfield6]

Currently I have the tremendous advantage pf being able to ride a commuter bus to work daily. And my company pays for it as a perk. The cost would be $180 month. I drive from my house 1.1 miles to the park-and-ride, and the bus stop in Midtown Atlanta is 2 blocks from my office.

BUT, I'm being recruited heavily by another company. Let's just say there are a number of reasons I would accept their offer. But what would suck would be the commute. No transit from where I live to where this company HQ is.

So, if I accept the job offer, I am almost assuredly getting a used Leaf. The prices are amazingly low for a very mileage used Leaf. Right now there is a 2013 Leaf SL with 14K miles at a dealer nearby for $12,900.

According to Google Maps, it is 22.6 miles one way to my potential new office. 46 miles round trip should be easily within the range of the Leaf. One of my neighbors has one a Leaf, and charges it up every night. He says his power bill went up about $25-30 a month.

Not as replacement for all of my vehicles, but I think it would be a perfect commuter vehicle. Plus I find the technology pretty cool. I'd be the guy trying to game it and push the mileage for all it's worth!

Atlanta does have a pretty good infrastructure already in place, and more being added everyday. As of Feb of this year, Atlanta was the number one metro area in the nation for Nissan Leaf sales.

[Perfectlap]

^$30 a month increase in electric bill to charge a car?
My electric bill nearly tripled this summer just to run my portable AC unit overnight! And I still had to pay for gas in my car. If I had a way of charging I'd be all over a leaf at those prices.

[Porsche9]

Don't forget the 220v charger.

How To Get the Best Home Charger for Your Plug-In Car | Edmunds.com

[leftfield6]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

^$30 a month increase in electric bill to charge a car?
My electric bill nearly tripled this summer just to run my portable AC unit overnight! And I still had to pay for gas in my car. If I had a way of charging I'd be all over a leaf at those prices.

Yeah, I'm not 100% sure he is giving me an accurate expectation at $30. It was kind of a casual comment so I don't think he had really done due diligence in arriving at that number.

Regardless, even it its triple that, the cost savings over my current daily drivers mpg of 15.4 would be significant.

[dghii]

I'm retired now (as of last summer) but door to door, home to office was 3 miles. I'd have loved to be able to ride my cart to work! We used lots of electric vehicle at our work and they were great forms of transportation.

If you haven't been paying attention, its worth doing some research it what the latest generation of electric vehcles have to offer.

My oldes son works in Orlando and his boss has a Tesla S....not sure how old but at least a year. He received a software upgrade that allows his car to work autonomously...not driving on the highway but it will park itself (at work or at home in the garage).

No fanfare on the release of the upgrade. It just works. My son has been in the car during the parking...he said it was weird but just worked.

I can't imagine!

[jaykay]

Battery capacity is one thing but the time to charge for range is a whole other kettle of fish. Perhaps a whole new industry can be developed around long range charging stations...hotels, cafes, spas.....shopping etc.

I may be totally unaware of the progress of current battery technology...but I think the charge time and weight of Li ion are just never gonna cut it long range. Something like a nano flow cell configuration is much more viable competitor to the ICE. Pump in some electrolyte and away you go.

While electric allows people some relief from pollution in high concentration population centres. I just jope that the efficiency is such that we will not be just just shifting Carbon emissions to a dirty grid. I for one will be truly saddened when the "sports car" I am driving no longer gives me that soulful visceral experience that has everything to do with a great sounding/feeling ICE...

[Timco]

What about battery disposal? Aren't these cars worse than any because of the footprint or whatever the battery disposal does?

Why not solar collectors built into the roof or braking to recharge?