Go Back   986 Forum - for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners > Porsche Boxster & Cayman Forums > Boxster General Discussions

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-30-2015, 02:49 PM   #1
I am my own mechanic....
 
Timco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 3,433
BMW...All cars to be electric in a decade..

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/3iy4vc/bmw_all_models_electric_within_decade_intends_to/


(RTTNews.com) - German luxury car giant Bayerische Motoren Werke AG or BMW Group (BAMXY, BAMXF, BMW.L) is looking to go all-electric over the next 10 years due to the upcoming stricter carbon emission laws. Virtually every BMW model would be converted to electric drivetrains, including range-extending engines and plug-in hybrids.

And then there's this issue...

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/09/07/toronto-hydro-chief-electric-car-upswing-would-crash-grid/

__________________
'04 Boxster S 50 Jahre 550 Spyder Anniversary Special Edition, 851 of 1953, 6-sp, IMS/RMS, GT Metallic silver, cocoa brown leather SOLD to member Broken Linkage.
'08 VW Touareg T-3 wife's car
'13 F150 Super Crew long bed 4x4 w/ Ego Boost

Last edited by Timco; 08-30-2015 at 02:54 PM.
Timco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2015, 02:52 PM   #2
Beginner
 
Jamesp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,659
Garage
They can be very fast...
__________________
2003 S manual
Jamesp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2015, 03:46 PM   #3
Certified Boxster Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,517
Hah! Did anyone really think that the oil companies where going to sit back and let electric cars gain a foothold in THEIR market?

As long as oil/gas is cheap (or until there is at least a doubling of battery energy density at the same cost) there will be no massive adoption of electric powered cars.
__________________
1999 996 C2 - sold - bought back - sold for more
1997 Spec Boxster BSR #254
1979 911 SC
POC Licensed DE/TT Instructor
thstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2015, 07:55 PM   #4
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,087
I love my golf cart! I'd think it'd be great if we saw electric vehicles mature and become a primary source of transportation.

I've noticed one weird thing...check out the price of a used Nissan Leaf, like an 2011 or 2012. They are very cheap ~$12K and predicted to be 40-50% cheaper in the next year.

If I can get a Leaf to mess with for $7K next year I may consider it. Heck, a nice used golf cart is $3-4K, why not get a car for a few bucks more!

No, it will not replace my Boxster S (or Alfa Spider, or M Roadster).
dghii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2015, 08:35 PM   #5
Registered User
 
Porsche9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 1,795
Quote:
Originally Posted by dghii View Post
I love my golf cart! I'd think it'd be great if we saw electric vehicles mature and become a primary source of transportation.

I've noticed one weird thing...check out the price of a used Nissan Leaf, like an 2011 or 2012. They are very cheap ~$12K and predicted to be 40-50% cheaper in the next year.

If I can get a Leaf to mess with for $7K next year I may consider it. Heck, a nice used golf cart is $3-4K, why not get a car for a few bucks more!

No, it will not replace my Boxster S (or Alfa Spider, or M Roadster).
No kidding on the price of used Leafs. Mighty tempting. The turn off for many is the need for a 220v hookup at home. Problem here in Phoenix is that their range when its hot is goes way down.
__________________
03 Carrera
02 Boxster S Guards Red, black interior with matching hardtop
89 Carrera 4
89 944 S2
78 911SC
Porsche9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2015, 10:17 PM   #6
Registered User
 
Pdwight's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 2,077
No way

We are just not there yet, battery technology is way behind that curve...30 years maybe.....ten....no way in heck
Pdwight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2015, 01:53 PM   #7
Registered User
 
lkchris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Posts: 656
Not interested in the slightest in electric cars.
__________________
Kent Christensen
Albuquerque
2001 Boxster
2007 GL320 CDI, 2010 CL550
3 BMW motorcycles
lkchris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2015, 02:03 PM   #8
Custom User Title Here
 
particlewave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: WA
Posts: 6,019
Garage
If you guys were involved in the industry, you would be very interested and you would know that battery storage capacities are set to make a huge leap within the next 10 years. Huge...10-100x.
The only semi-valid argument from the pro-ICE crowd about the future of electric is the butt-hurt over loss of ICE sound. If they lived 115 years ago, they'd be the ones angry about those noisy horseless carriages. Advancement always moves forward, despite resistance from the "scared of change" crowd.

Electric power puts IC to shame on every front but storage capacity, and that table will tilt in the direction of electric soon. Think "super conductors" and "nano carbon".
There will be transition periods when ICE and electric power will be facing one another and ICE is going to lose. Very soon...

There is no debate, only logic. Mark my words.
That's it. I won't come back to this thread and argue with anyone as it's pointless.

Last edited by particlewave; 08-31-2015 at 02:17 PM.
particlewave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2015, 02:17 PM   #9
Beginner
 
Jamesp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,659
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by particlewave View Post

Electric power puts IC to shame on every front but storage capacity, and that table will tilt in the direction of electric soon. Think "super conductors" and "nano carbon".
There will be transition periods when ICE and electric power will be facing one another and ICE is going to lose. Very soon...

There is no debate, only logic. Mark my words.
Take a look at model airplanes. The fuel for those engines is alcohol based. It has a lower BTU per pound mass than gasoline or diesel. The "gas" model airplane engines have been replaced by electric motors thanks to better rare earth magnets and lithium polymer battery technology. The BTU per lb mass of the electric propulsion system is sufficient to make the electric motors and batteries an attractive replacement. The curve being climbed is the BTU per pound mass curve. When electric motors and batteries bypass fuel tanks and ICEs in this measure the tide will turn and any ICE will be consigned to the dustbin with steam engines.
__________________
2003 S manual
Jamesp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2015, 02:20 PM   #10
Registered User
 
Porsche9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 1,795
Quote:
Originally Posted by particlewave View Post
If you guys were involved in the industry, you would be very interested and you would know that battery storage capacities are set to make a huge leap within the next 10 years. Huge...10-100x.
The only semi-valid argument from the pro-ICE crowd about the future of electric is the butt-hurt over loss of ICE sound. If they lived 115 years ago, they'd be the ones angry about those noisy horseless carriages. Advancement always moves forward, despite resistance from the "scared of change" crowd.

Electric power puts IC to shame on every front but storage capacity, and that table will tilt in the direction of electric soon. Think "super conductors" and "nano carbon".
There will be transition periods when ICE and electric power will be facing one another and ICE is going to lose. Very soon...

There is no debate, only logic. Mark my words.
I don't like it but I know it's coming and sooner rather than later. I think the battery capacity issue will be resolved in the next 5 to 10 years but the infrasturcture to support electric cars will take longer. In the end it is an overall good thing especially if we can rid ourselves on the dependence of those that really don't like us. For me I will always like ICE over a electric motor just like I a steam locomotive over a diesel electriv locomotive. Both are dirty machines with many down sides but they are just a hellva lot more fun to play with.
__________________
03 Carrera
02 Boxster S Guards Red, black interior with matching hardtop
89 Carrera 4
89 944 S2
78 911SC
Porsche9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2015, 03:25 PM   #11
Registered User
 
Perfectlap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 8,696
Obviously BMW are watching the Giga factories closely and are worried that Tesla will be eating their lunch (the educated wealthy) soon. If Tesla manage to reduce their per kilowatt hour cost substantially with mass production of their hardware the educated wealthy will be actively cross shopping every Tesla model with every BMW, Merc, Audi, Range Rover and Porsche. Once a well heeled buyer enjoys the red carpet Tesla treatment and experiences the "cool factor" of all the high tech bells and whistles of never having to deal with the gas station hassle, it will be hard for them to go back to the old way. BMW have no doubt done some internal studying of the educated wealthy and their greater interest in cutting edge technology.
__________________
GT3 Recaro Seats - Boxster Red
GT3 Aero / Carrera 18" 5 spoke / Potenza RE-11
Fabspeed Headers & Noise Maker
BORN: March 2000 - FINLAND
IMS#1 REPLACED: April 2010 - NEW JERSEY -- LNE DUAL ROW
Perfectlap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2015, 04:21 PM   #12
Registered User
 
Perfectlap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 8,696
Quote:
Originally Posted by thstone View Post
Hah! Did anyone really think that the oil companies where going to sit back and let electric cars gain a foothold in THEIR market?

As long as oil/gas is cheap (or until there is at least a doubling of battery energy density at the same cost) there will be no massive adoption of electric powered cars.
I don't about that. The way I see it gas prices will have to remain below their historical average for an unusually long period of time to keep the car buying market as loyally comitted to ICEs as in the past. And as we know, there is no market, oil or any other commodity for that matter, that stays at the low end indefinitely without a proportional spike to the high end at some point in the medium term. I think at some point Tesla, GM and Japan will deliver the illusive EV that the middle income household can afford. They'll likely do so at a loss but if there is a dramatic increase in EV's at that price point it's a whole new ball game. And of course the autos will pull strings from Washington to keep the subsidies flowing. Point being EVs may never become profitable for the autos but they'll have no choice but to chase the market share or potentially lose out on a future demographic that insist on EVs. You know the millenialls aren't going to be broke forever and they're the first generation to grow up with mass market adoption of technology. If cost is no longer a barrier these recent generations of buyers will come to expect electric technology in their cars.
__________________
GT3 Recaro Seats - Boxster Red
GT3 Aero / Carrera 18" 5 spoke / Potenza RE-11
Fabspeed Headers & Noise Maker
BORN: March 2000 - FINLAND
IMS#1 REPLACED: April 2010 - NEW JERSEY -- LNE DUAL ROW

Last edited by Perfectlap; 08-31-2015 at 04:30 PM.
Perfectlap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2015, 04:27 PM   #13
Ben-Auto-Design
 
Ben006's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: French Riviera
Posts: 808
Quote:
Originally Posted by particlewave View Post
If you guys were involved in the industry, you would be very interested and you would know that battery storage capacities are set to make a huge leap within the next 10 years. Huge...10-100x.
The only semi-valid argument from the pro-ICE crowd about the future of electric is the butt-hurt over loss of ICE sound. If they lived 115 years ago, they'd be the ones angry about those noisy horseless carriages. Advancement always moves forward, despite resistance from the "scared of change" crowd.

Electric power puts IC to shame on every front but storage capacity, and that table will tilt in the direction of electric soon. Think "super conductors" and "nano carbon".
There will be transition periods when ICE and electric power will be facing one another and ICE is going to lose. Very soon...

There is no debate, only logic. Mark my words.
That's it. I won't come back to this thread and argue with anyone as it's pointless.
I won't argue ... because I'm 100% with you !
A lot of people I've talked to about electric cars have no idea of what they are talking about and as you said, 115 years ago, they would have been the angry ones against the petrol powered carriages...

Honnestly, as my boxster is a daily driver, I would really want it electric (with the same power).

My family owns the french equivalent of the nissan leaf (renault zo, the exact same, but good looking), and despite some small defects, it's a real pleasure to drive !

So, I'm happy that I will see more electric cars in the near future !

Ben.
Ben006 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2015, 06:11 PM   #14
Yeah, I've done that.
 
leftfield6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Atlanta GA
Posts: 91
Garage
Currently I have the tremendous advantage pf being able to ride a commuter bus to work daily. And my company pays for it as a perk. The cost would be $180 month. I drive from my house 1.1 miles to the park-and-ride, and the bus stop in Midtown Atlanta is 2 blocks from my office.

BUT, I'm being recruited heavily by another company. Let's just say there are a number of reasons I would accept their offer. But what would suck would be the commute. No transit from where I live to where this company HQ is.

So, if I accept the job offer, I am almost assuredly getting a used Leaf. The prices are amazingly low for a very mileage used Leaf. Right now there is a 2013 Leaf SL with 14K miles at a dealer nearby for $12,900.

According to Google Maps, it is 22.6 miles one way to my potential new office. 46 miles round trip should be easily within the range of the Leaf. One of my neighbors has one a Leaf, and charges it up every night. He says his power bill went up about $25-30 a month.

Not as replacement for all of my vehicles, but I think it would be a perfect commuter vehicle. Plus I find the technology pretty cool. I'd be the guy trying to game it and push the mileage for all it's worth!

Atlanta does have a pretty good infrastructure already in place, and more being added everyday. As of Feb of this year, Atlanta was the number one metro area in the nation for Nissan Leaf sales.
__________________
1999 Boxster, Tiptronic, Hard Top, Arctic Silver with Boxster Red Interior
leftfield6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2015, 06:58 PM   #15
Registered User
 
Perfectlap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 8,696
^$30 a month increase in electric bill to charge a car?
My electric bill nearly tripled this summer just to run my portable AC unit overnight! And I still had to pay for gas in my car. If I had a way of charging I'd be all over a leaf at those prices.
__________________
GT3 Recaro Seats - Boxster Red
GT3 Aero / Carrera 18" 5 spoke / Potenza RE-11
Fabspeed Headers & Noise Maker
BORN: March 2000 - FINLAND
IMS#1 REPLACED: April 2010 - NEW JERSEY -- LNE DUAL ROW
Perfectlap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2015, 09:34 PM   #16
Registered User
 
Porsche9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 1,795
Don't forget the 220v charger.

How To Get the Best Home Charger for Your Plug-In Car | Edmunds.com
__________________
03 Carrera
02 Boxster S Guards Red, black interior with matching hardtop
89 Carrera 4
89 944 S2
78 911SC
Porsche9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2015, 03:50 AM   #17
Yeah, I've done that.
 
leftfield6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Atlanta GA
Posts: 91
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfectlap View Post
^$30 a month increase in electric bill to charge a car?
My electric bill nearly tripled this summer just to run my portable AC unit overnight! And I still had to pay for gas in my car. If I had a way of charging I'd be all over a leaf at those prices.

Yeah, I'm not 100% sure he is giving me an accurate expectation at $30. It was kind of a casual comment so I don't think he had really done due diligence in arriving at that number.

Regardless, even it its triple that, the cost savings over my current daily drivers mpg of 15.4 would be significant.
__________________
1999 Boxster, Tiptronic, Hard Top, Arctic Silver with Boxster Red Interior
leftfield6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2015, 07:11 PM   #18
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,087
I'm retired now (as of last summer) but door to door, home to office was 3 miles. I'd have loved to be able to ride my cart to work! We used lots of electric vehicle at our work and they were great forms of transportation.

If you haven't been paying attention, its worth doing some research it what the latest generation of electric vehcles have to offer.

My oldes son works in Orlando and his boss has a Tesla S....not sure how old but at least a year. He received a software upgrade that allows his car to work autonomously...not driving on the highway but it will park itself (at work or at home in the garage).

No fanfare on the release of the upgrade. It just works. My son has been in the car during the parking...he said it was weird but just worked.

I can't imagine!
dghii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2015, 07:43 PM   #19
Registered User
 
jaykay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: toronto
Posts: 2,297
Battery capacity is one thing but the time to charge for range is a whole other kettle of fish. Perhaps a whole new industry can be developed around long range charging stations...hotels, cafes, spas.....shopping etc.

I may be totally unaware of the progress of current battery technology...but I think the charge time and weight of Li ion are just never gonna cut it long range. Something like a nano flow cell configuration is much more viable competitor to the ICE. Pump in some electrolyte and away you go.

While electric allows people some relief from pollution in high concentration population centres. I just jope that the efficiency is such that we will not be just just shifting Carbon emissions to a dirty grid. I for one will be truly saddened when the "sports car" I am driving no longer gives me that soulful visceral experience that has everything to do with a great sounding/feeling ICE...
__________________
00 986 S....with a few tweaks

Last edited by jaykay; 09-01-2015 at 08:01 PM.
jaykay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2015, 08:21 PM   #20
I am my own mechanic....
 
Timco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 3,433
What about battery disposal? Aren't these cars worse than any because of the footprint or whatever the battery disposal does?

Why not solar collectors built into the roof or braking to recharge?

__________________
'04 Boxster S 50 Jahre 550 Spyder Anniversary Special Edition, 851 of 1953, 6-sp, IMS/RMS, GT Metallic silver, cocoa brown leather SOLD to member Broken Linkage.
'08 VW Touareg T-3 wife's car
'13 F150 Super Crew long bed 4x4 w/ Ego Boost
Timco is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page