Taing it to the next level- 3.6 engine build

[pkp4911]

Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc

pkp4911 if the approximate number you are asking for is the price for the engine no I am not willing to share that. I think because Jake and I are distant friends he probably did a few things for me that he normally wouldn't do for others and it wouldn't be fair to Jake to advertise the price. What I have said in past postings if you are a bean counter this engine doesn't make financial sense in regards that the engine cost much more than the car is worth. But that didn't concern me when I started conversations with Jake about this build. I wanted a real sleeper of a Boxster and that's exactly what I have. I can't wait to get this on Road Atlanta and stretch her legs but I have a lot more miles to get on her before that happens.

Many months have passed now since reading about your build. Congrats! Happy to see it finally come to fruition with more disclosure about out of pocket costs.
I'm the guy with the 03 3.2S in Denver who tracked the car one time (admittedly HOT day) and despite deep sump, no over revs, previous leak down and updated IMS lost a main bearing and toasted motor...(30 years with my 73 911 and not one track failure--guessing 6K miles at high RPM's over the course of that time.) I digress...

In my quest to replace the 3.2, I stumbled across an 03 3.6 with 60k and updated IMS. Leak down good, everything there. I read everything I could...Pelican 101 cover to cover and hit all the forums as well for months. found a shop here in Denver who performed the swap with the agreement being that I could help. After 3 long months, pulling old motor , swapping old to the new, cleaning everything, replacing tensioners, checking chain tolerances, replaced coil packs, gaskets, seals, etc. we were ready to put the motor back in.

Initially, able to fire the car as soon as everything was hooked up but had some immediate tuning issues with Softronic due to bad MAF (replaced twice! ) and the altitude here in Colorado. One mistake, (well actually several mistakes) but thus far, a BIG mistake was that they decided to accelerate the schedule and put the motor back in and when we went to hook things up we realized the error they didn't put the air box in first. I was not there the afternoon that they decided to put it all back in.
By then it would have been too much effort to drop the motor just put the air box in. Time is money...As anyone has done this before and knows, we were already way over budget. So I've been running a simple cone system with a mcguivered hand-built airbox which basically seals the cone to the outside duct coming in.

This is not optimal by any stretch especially as I live on a very dusty dirty road . I think my MAF issues are related to dirt getting in and causing the system to misread. I'd always intended to utilize the stock box because everything I've read says it it's still the best and at my age, I'm not one that needs a lot of noise or things like that.

I retained the stock 3.2 exhaust system with the Pedro Muffler modification due to emission laws where I live. Headers straight pipes and customized Muffler of some sort are slated.

I am using the factory 996 throttle body and was very careful matching the internal diameters and radii to the size of throttle body. All of my bends are very smooth and there are no major disturbances internally. I am using turbo grade clamps and used a 3-inch (or there abouts) aluminum tube to run the distance before it bends again at the side of the car to transition towards the air box. I measured where the factory MAF location is and then used the MAF from the OE housing from the factory to emulate the distance of air flow and pattern of airflow as consistently as possible. I also recreated a mesh out of stainless with the same approximate size grid pattern to recreate the necessary turbulence/air flow pattern for the MAF to read properly.

I am also running an underdrive pulley a 160-degree thermostat with the softronic 3.6 performance tune. With elevation factored, we estimated that we should be seeing about a 10% gross horsepower loss over the factory 300 HP in addition to maybe 5% parasitic drivetrain losses. All that said I was still hoping that I would see a significant performance gain over the 3.2. Having put about 3,000 miles on the conversion I've only had one time where I thought this car performed where it absolutely should. Nonetheless I was very excited about that and know that just a matter of time to Chase what I perceive to be a tune issue. I still think that my MAF is sending the wrong information to the ECU and performance parameters are hindered.
The only time this car PERFORMED to the degree that I thought it would from the beginning was after I had meticulously recleaned the MAF, cleaned the entire intake track to the throttle body (which was quite dirty at that point). I then used carburetor cleaner extensively inside the intake tracks as well.
Any thoughts on anything stated above would be welcome. I realize this is a somewhat complicated deal even though it's described as a plug-and-play with same vintage engine and m96 architecture, ECU, excetera excetera.

Again very glad to hear that Jake has done such an outstanding job with your build. I'd be ecstatic if I had a proportionate level of performance relative to what I've spent to enhance performance over the stock engine at this point.

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[911monty]

[QUOTE=pkp4911;520838]
I am using the factory 996 throttle body and was very careful matching the internal diameters and radii to the size of throttle body. All of my bends are very smooth and there are no major disturbances internally. I am using turbo grade clamps and used a 3-inch (or there abouts) aluminum tube to run the distance before it bends again at the side of the car to transition towards the air box. I measured where the factory MAF location is and then used the MAF from the OE housing from the factory to emulate the distance of air flow and pattern of airflow as consistently as possible. I also recreated a mesh out of stainless with the same approximate size grid pattern to recreate the necessary turbulence/air flow pattern for the MAF to read properly.



Don't want to hijack this thread, but this is an interesting story. I'd recommend starting this as a new thread. That said, You have a lot of detail in this post, but the question I have that I don't see is did you use the OE MAF housing along with the OE MAF in your intake you built? To calculate flow the MAF has to have the correct ID along with velocity, temp etc. Hopefully it is something this simple.

[pkp4911]

[QUOTE=911monty;520944]

Originally Posted by pkp4911

I am using the factory 996 throttle body and was very careful matching the internal diameters and radii to the size of throttle body. All of my bends are very smooth and there are no major disturbances internally. I am using turbo grade clamps and used a 3-inch (or there abouts) aluminum tube to run the distance before it bends again at the side of the car to transition towards the air box. I measured where the factory MAF location is and then used the MAF from the OE housing from the factory to emulate the distance of air flow and pattern of airflow as consistently as possible. I also recreated a mesh out of stainless with the same approximate size grid pattern to recreate the necessary turbulence/air flow pattern for the MAF to read properly.



Don't want to hijack this thread, but this is an interesting story. I'd recommend starting this as a new thread. That said, You have a lot of detail in this post, but the question I have that I don't see is did you use the OE MAF housing along with the OE MAF in your intake you built? To calculate flow the MAF has to have the correct ID along with velocity, temp etc. Hopefully it is something this simple.

Monty, I did use the existing OE location/tube with integral MAF mounting location and of course the factory 996 prefix on the MAF itself.

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[rfuerst911sc]

Wow how time flies it has been over a year ! The car is running great with zero issues . I enjoy her every time I get behind the wheel . Rear tires don't seem to last very long There is nothing I would change . And on my health front all systems go no issues
I am going to retire in about 6 months and will be able to put more miles on the beast !

[ymkmkrz]

Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc

pkp4911 if the approximate number you are asking for is the price for the engine no I am not willing to share that. I think because Jake and I are distant friends he probably did a few things for me that he normally wouldn't do for others and it wouldn't be fair to Jake to advertise the price. What I have said in past postings if you are a bean counter this engine doesn't make financial sense in regards that the engine cost much more than the car is worth. But that didn't concern me when I started conversations with Jake about this build. I wanted a real sleeper of a Boxster and that's exactly what I have. I can't wait to get this on Road Atlanta and stretch her legs but I have a lot more miles to get on her before that happens.

I have a much much earlier build of a 3.6 M96 engine Jake built for me. It is hard to imagine one any better, but obviously Jake has learned much! Mine was completed in 2009 and hopefully helped get to the differences between then and now. I used it as a daily driver for a few years and the last few just as a toy. I don't regret a dime I spent and have enjoyed it immensely. The power delivery
And throttle response is simply amazing! My intent was to keep the car until I couldn't drive it anymore and I will likely reach that goal haha!

Reading this thread makes Me want to Go through another build doing what Jake is doing now. I have another car that is bone stock now, so who knows?


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[rfuerst911sc]

I was killing time this morning on the computer and realized it's been a year since last posting ! First and foremost all health follow up visits have been perfect with no issues Second is the car is still as rock solid as ever , only issue is a slight high idle which we believe we have traced to the ECU . Will probably have to pull the ECU and the immobilizer and send to the ECU doctor in Florida . But for now I am holding off as the car is just too much fun to drive . Oh yeah I retired on 12/1/17 at the ripe old age of 60 and there is NOTHING about work that I miss !!! Life is very good at the moment enjoying every day to the fullest . We moved into our retirement house the fall of last year and I'm currently finishing up a 2 car detached garage to house the beast complete with 2 post lift and AC/heat . We are loving it in the North GA. mountains .

[pidj]

Fantastic news on all fronts!! Great to hear you're still enjoying your Rabyized 986 and ,most importantly, your retirement. Keep us in the loop and the sun at your back

[rfuerst911sc]

So it's been 4 years and 7,000 miles later got a chance to get back to Jake's shop to do some fine tuning . I looked back at my old dyno charts and she made 277 hp and 245 lb. ft. of torque at the wheels when she was new . That was in the winter so cold crisp air . The only thing I have altered since then is I took off the GHL muffler and installed the stock S muffler with a home version of PSE bypass pipes . Jake has a new propriatory tuning system so I decided to try it . Yesterday the temps were in the mid 80's but not too humid so decent conditions .

Basically after about 15 pulls we had it dialed in , the AFR's from idle to 7K are perfect with max hp of 282.22 and torque of 252 ........... at the wheels ! The throttle response is even more crisp than it was which is hard to believe . Idle is rock steady , light throttle or heavy throttle she's as smooth as a turbine . Zero drivability issues it starts great cold or hot . One of the guys at the shop stated mine pulls as hard as some 4 litres he has driven . I know Jake is building some monster motors so mine is a pip squeek in comparison but I wouldn't trade mine for anything at the moment . Driving " the beast " in the mountains is just crazy I can power slide at will or keep her sedate and in control . I can't imagine how many of these Porsche could have sold if they rolled off the assembly line like this one .

[rfuerst911sc]

Lap1doug yeah I need to get out to some PCA events. I went down to Atlanta Motor Speedway a few weeks ago to do the AX but it was so friggen cold I said I'm outta here. But it was a nice drive down and back. In regards to the dyno I have no problem waiting until Jake and I hook up. It's part of the deal so why go anywhere else ?

[JEhunter]

Rick -
(I'm also here in town, Canton Ga)
I'm new to the site and just spent and hour reading your whole engine build with Jake. I'm in the market for a nice clean '00-'03 Boxster S. The used motor and mild performance is an issue more me. I love the Boxster platform but would like to step up to a larger motor and 300+ HP. Step 1 was to drive down to Marietta and visit John Cobbs and spend some time going over his LS V8 boxster - WOW! I briefly read up on TPC's turbo kit deal but I'm not so sure about the long term drivability of the turbo platform.

So, just a few quick questions. Did Jake take your OE 3.2 motor and build it into the 3.6 or did you bring him a second larger motor and he built off that? Also, did you keep the OE Boxster S transmission? What about the clutch upgrade? OK, last one, did you upgrade to larger injectors or have to make a bunch of changes to the fuel management system?

Thanks John Hunter

[rfuerst911sc]

Originally Posted by JEhunter

Rick -
(I'm also here in town, Canton Ga)
I'm new to the site and just spent and hour reading your whole engine build with Jake. I'm in the market for a nice clean '00-'03 Boxster S. The used motor and mild performance is an issue more me. I love the Boxster platform but would like to step up to a larger motor and 300+ HP. Step 1 was to drive down to Marietta and visit John Cobbs and spend some time going over his LS V8 boxster - WOW! I briefly read up on TPC's turbo kit deal but I'm not so sure about the long term drivability of the turbo platform.

So, just a few quick questions. Did Jake take your OE 3.2 motor and build it into the 3.6 or did you bring him a second larger motor and he built off that? Also, did you keep the OE Boxster S transmission? What about the clutch upgrade? OK, last one, did you upgrade to larger injectors or have to make a bunch of changes to the fuel management system?

If you want to give me a call I'm at 404-435-3960 - Thanks John Hunter

Hello John welcome to the site . Yes Jake built up my 3.2 block . Yes kept the OE 6 speed and clutch. Jake said the clutch would handle the power just fine and he was right. Yes to larger injectors and I have no clue what if anything Jake did for fuel management. I did/do ask Jake questions about what he was doing and what we will still do in the future but some stuff is kind of his secrets and I leave it at that.

[Dubaday]

Enjoyed this read very much from start to finish.
Also really enjoyed "The Flat 6 Difference" Illustration by Michael Davidson.
Jake, you're a mad genius, props
and Rick, add me to the envious category

One day, I hope to be able to get on the wait list to have a
Jake Raby build of my own. Until then, can you share more videos? haha

[rfuerst911sc]

So I have about 1300 miles on the engine I have been driving it to work 3 times a week. But I'm adding miles in very small chunks I need to do a road trip. Jake wants aprox. 2000 miles on her before we dive in and do some voodoo tuning. I'm hoping to turn her over to Jake in the August/September time frame to do the tuning.
It has been hot here in GA. with most days in the 93 - 97 degree range. Car starts/runs/idles darn near perfect. She restarts after a 10 - 15 minute heat soak with no problems. I really have zero complaints about the build/install. If I can get the GHL muffler tuned to lower or eliminate the resonance it will be perfect . I still get a smile a mile wide when doing full throttle passes she just pulls so hard and revs so quick. I've only burned a half a quart of oil to date which I'm also impressed with . It's all good !

[rfuerst911sc]

10/10ths that is a nice looking muffler but no way I'm going to spend that kind of money, I would rather do suspension mods/maintenance .

[10/10ths]

...but the value remains, long after the price is forgotten.

[Gilles]

Originally Posted by 10/10ths

...but the value remains, long after the price is forgotten.

Awesome exhaust!

But wow, it's crazy how much does it costs now the Brombacher exhaust for the 987

Would you believe that I paid for mine about $1,750 (in two payments… ) at a group buy on the Cayman Club several years ago!

[rfuerst911sc]

Merry Christmas everyone the results are in ! Yes I picked the car up yesterday from Jake it spent a few weeks there for some hiccups we didn't anticipate. First off in an attempt to tone down the exhaust drone I foolishly had some resonators installed in the cat delete pipes. The person that installed them did a crappy job , they really didn't help with the drone and they were leaking and killing power . Thanks to Woody and another forum member I had another set of cat delete pipes and the u-bend pipes delivered to Jake. Exhaust now working properly and not leaking . Then we were deficient on fuel , turns out the fuel pump was going south . So a new pump was ordered/installed . Now that everything was up to snuff the dyno tuning began and the final numbers are 280 hp and 250 lb. ft. of torque at the rear wheels. She is a very healthy girl . Jake set the rev limiter to 7800 and she pulls strongly right up to it. I was quite surprised the intake system flows as well as it does the hp does not fall off . I thought she ran good before the tuning now it is a completely different animal . The throttle response is instant and she runs perfect . And the exhaust note now has no drone at all the combination of no leaks and car chemistry baffles installed in the exhaust tips have totally eliminated any drone. Just sweet music. Jake told me ahead of time that my exhaust was going to leave hp on the table and it did, a recent engine he completed similar to mine made 307 at the wheels with the only main difference being a custom straight exhaust ( no muffler ) . I am OK with the compromise as she is somewhat of a daily driver and the wife rides along also but knowing that there is more power there to be tapped is good also . And now my story ends I'm just going to drive her and have fun .

[PaulE]

Thanks for the update, drive it like you stole it. I've been following this thread since the beginning and feel like I've learned a lot from it. Glad you are enjoying it and that you have your health too. Happy holidays to you and everyone else on this forum!

[Troy.Boxster]

Merry Christmas indeed! Getting your car back just in time for Christmas is terrific present. Enjoy!

[Porsche9]

Thanks for the update. Sounds like she's totally dialed in. Enjoy and Merry Christmas.