Seller won't PPI

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by coreseller

It looks as if we are on the same page after all. I took your prior post "walk away if the seller places any boundaries" as to suggest the seller forfeit any say in what the prospective buyer wants / where to check the car out, for me that would be out of the question.

Side note; the PPI that was ultimately performed on my car was by a local shop who builds 911's for Lemans and Grand Am teams, and their cars regularly win. Sgt Brad was the buyer of the car and he paid for the PPI. Brad contacted me a few weeks after the sale and said the shop came back after him for an additional $500 for repairs that they had "an invoice dispute / discrepancy" over. I was a bit surprised at the whole scenario but got involved and talked to the shop since they were local and it was eventually dropped.

My guess is that you see the other side of the spectrum being a shop owner, it's just that my limited exposure to P-Car PPI's as a seller has been a bit sour.

P.S. Knowing now what I wish I knew then there a 2 or 3 shops within an hour from my location that I'd completely trust.

I completely understand your position; but having personally done a PPI on what was being sold as a one owner, very low mileage, and absolutely immaculate 996 C4s, only to find they had popped a used 2.7L Boxster engine into it to sell it, I can tell you not everything is as it seems...............

[Johnny Danger]

I've always been torn on the issue of a PPI. As as buyer, I would more than expect the opportunity to have one conducted. Yet, as a seller, I would never avail the D-mobile to one. Not for reasons that it wouldn't pass. To the contrary, it would pass with more than flying colors. But, similar to Coreseller, I wouldn't want anyone probing around and pulling things apart for fear that something might get damaged or screwed up in the process. I guess to some extent that makes me a hypocrite. But, some vehicles have their own boundaries.

[Ckrikos]

I would think the most invasive check would be to drop the oil pan. I don't think I would request going any further than that. Or is that too invasive? I really think you need to check for metal or plastic debris with these cars.

[Tucker2]

I paid $260 for a PPI from my closest Porsche dealer for an '02 BS I was considering. I was given a list of items they said were required that totaled over $4K worth of work. I then discovered the Independent who had serviced the car for over 3 years and was informed that much of the work 'required' by the dealer had been done ONE MONTH EARLIER. I then spoke to a different, closer, Independent who debunked another $2K of worth of Dealer quotes. Ugh.

So...I just splurged and spent $200 (two hundred) at Pelican for the balance of the "$4K" required.

I have to say...unless you are REALLY comfortable with your Dealer, stick with an Independant that has great references. I walk up to Porsche owners and just ask, "Who takes care of your car?". Worth it.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Ckrikos

I would think the most invasive check would be to drop the oil pan. I don't think I would request going any further than that. Or is that too invasive? I really think you need to check for metal or plastic debris with these cars.

We always pull the oil filter, both to look for debris and to take and oil sample for testing. If the filter is full of crap, you don't need to look further.

[jcb986]

Most guys on here are in a state of anxiety over the IMS issue...which again I think is overstated. But, hey, lets look at another option. Instead of paying $4-5k for this upgrade replacement bearing. Go on ebay and by a replacement engine. I can get one a 3.2 for my car with very good mileage (50k) for about $2k. Now I prep this engine and make sure its sound. Maybe putting in a new bearing, seals, etc. and having it ready to go. Lets say I never have to use it and I sell my Boxster and get something else. Now that engine setting in my garage can now be redeemed for cash...like having a savings account. It was there when I needed but never used it. Get it.

[dghii]

Originally Posted by jcb986

Most guys on here are in a state of anxiety over the IMS issue...which again I think is overstated. But, hey, lets look at another option. Instead of paying $4-5k for this upgrade replacement bearing. Go on ebay and by a replacement engine. I can get one a 3.2 for my car with very good mileage (50k) for about $2k. Now I prep this engine and make sure its sound. Maybe putting in a new bearing, seals, etc. and having it ready to go. Lets say I never have to use it and I sell my Boxster and get something else. Now that engine setting in my garage can now be redeemed for cash...like having a savings account. It was there when I needed but never used it. Get it.

Not a bad plan but I sure haven't seen a used 3.2 for $2K. Not saying you can't find one but most I see are more in the $4-6K range.

[jcb986]

Originally Posted by dghii

Not a bad plan but I sure haven't seen a used 3.2 for $2K. Not saying you can't find one but most I see are more in the $4-6K range.

They are there and anything ebay for sale is negotiable, evenly they will sell at a reasonable price. Just depends on your budget.

[Perfectlap]

as a general economic rule, you are unlikely to get a good price (below fair market) from an unmotivated seller. And when it comes to mass produced water-cooled Porsches, there's no reason to deal with an unmotivated seller.

If we were talking about a well-kept 993 or some other small production Porsche, then you are playing in a seller's market. That's not the case with any water-cooled Carrera, Boxster/Cayman, Cayenne or Pana --unless it comes with a limited production engine like the RS 4.0. There are a crap ton of these mass production engine cars every day on Autotrader if you have to have it right now, or on the enthusiast forum classifies if you want a good deal instead. No need to jump through hoops this guy isn't selling anything you won't find somewhere else.

[recycledsixtie]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

as a general economic rule, you are unlikely to get a good price (below fair market) from an unmotivated seller. And when it comes to mass produced water-cooled Porsches, there's no reason to deal with an unmotivated seller.

If we were talking about a well-kept 993 or some other small production Porsche, then you are playing in a seller's market. That's not the case with any water-cooled Carrera, Boxster/Cayman, Cayenne or Pana --unless it comes with a limited production engine like the RS 4.0. There are a crap ton of these mass production engine cars every day on Autotrader if you have to have it right now, or on the enthusiast forum classifies if you want a good deal instead. No need to jump through hoops this guy isn't selling anything you won't find somewhere else.

+1 on this.
Plus I like to deal with a private seller who is accommodating and has a decent personality. I have walked away from a seller who acts like Darth Vader. The only time it gets edgy for me is when I am negotiating the price. If I was intent on selling a car I would entertain the idea of letting the indy open up the oil filter as long as a new one was put back in at the prospective buyer's expense. If I was selling a car I would hide nothing. Is this seller hiding something.....lots of Boxsters out there even if you have to do some travelling. Don't buy the first one you see.

[Perfectlap]

yep. If I sense through an ad or over the phone that the guy is a ball-buster, I know he's going to fight me over every nickel. Next. Whenver possible I gravitate towards guys who are more concerned with losing time than money. 9 times out of 10 a fair offer will be accepted. And I know these types have to deal with an epic number of numb skulls making hail Mary low ball offers, which is a waste of the seller's time.

[scottvd]

Just as an update - I contacted the owner of the 2004 today, totally a car enthusiast. He started his car hobby with a Pantera, now owns a Viper and recently purchased 911. He had the IMS failure at 30k, all work done by dealership under warranty and replaced clutch at the same time. I contacted the local Porsche dealership to schedule a PPI, waiting for a call back. The owner knew the service manager's name and number, and they've serviced this car in the past. Feeling like this 04 has been cared for just a bit more than the 03. Thanks again everyone for your input!

Oh, as a side note- do IMS failures ever happen again on the Porsche replaced engines? I know the upgraded bearing is larger.. Which is better the LN or revised Porsche?

[scottvd]

As an update to the update, called Don Sucich from the Porsche dealership in Woodland Hills, CA. He said none of the Porsche dealerships do PPI anymore because of the legal problems involved.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by scottvd

As an update to the update, called Don Sucich from the Porsche dealership in Woodland Hills, CA. He said none of the Porsche dealerships do PPI anymore because of the legal problems involved.

No big loss. A PPI and license plate frame would be all I would ever use an dealership for on an out-of-warranty Porsche. Strike that, I once picked up a MAHLE oil filter there after running out of spares. But Ray Catena Porsche has by far the best complimentary sandwich and doughnut buffett spread in the business!

In alternative you could have the current owner simply ask the dealership to perform a diagnostic of needed maintenance. I had the dealer do this when I was inching closer towards major maintenance. They checked everything -- down to which coil packs need replacing. The service manager handed me the estimate that equalled the car's market value. LOL. He didn't even try to sell me on a single item on his estimate as he could tell I would be taking the car directly to an independent Porsche specialist and saving errr 60% right off the bat. However, a diagnostic would not really dig into things like leak down/compression testing. Point is go with an indy shop with a good reputation to check the car thoroughly.

[Slate 01]

Scott, I live in Oakdale as well, small world huh?

Take it to Eurotrends in Ceres, they are good guys and will shoot straight with you. Also, they will be good guys to get to know for any future needs or services you will have.

Good Luck

[scottvd]

Another Oakdale guy cool! The 2004 Boxster is getting PPI tomorrow at TRE Motorsports. Getting excited!

[Perfectlap]

A word about the PPI. Before I underwent my major maintenance at 70K miles, my mechanic gave it a once over an commented how good everything looked underneath (that didn't require taking things apart). About six months later a slew of things let go without warning. I recall a bill around that time for about $5K...again at independent shop rates, I can only imagine what that would have cost at the dealer.

Point is no matter what the PPI reveals, you must factor in known Boxster/Carrera weak spots, things that will typically go by a certain mileage that aren't part of the service schedule and simple random failures that happen to any car. Even if you're not spending ~$1,000 - $1,300 a year on these things, they are accruing just the same and will need to be done later or sooner depending on how much you decide to start driving the car.

[jcb986]

Then if they don't do a PPI, then how do they Certify a pre-owned porsche.

[Slate 01]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

A word about the PPI. Before I underwent my major maintenance at 70K miles, my mechanic gave it a once over an commented how good everything looked underneath (that didn't require taking things apart). About six months later a slew of things let go without warning. I recall a bill around that time for about $5K...again at independent shop rates, I can only imagine what that would have cost at the dealer.

Point is no matter what the PPI reveals, you must factor in known Boxster/Carrera weak spots, things that will typically go by a certain mileage that aren't part of the service schedule and simple random failures that happen to any car. Even if you're not spending ~$1,000 - $1,300 a year on these things, they are accruing just the same and will need to be done later or sooner depending on how much you decide to start driving the car.

BUZZKILL!:ah:

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by Slate 01

BUZZKILL!:ah:

you will have many of those after 70K miles.

My advice: in after 20K out by 50K. Let the first owner take the hit on depreciation, let the next guy pay for major maintenance.