What is going on with 986 and 996 prices?

[Deserion]

Part of the disparity between 993 and 996 prices would be related directly to production figures. The 993 run produced around 63,000 cars, while the 996 run was around 162,000. Then add in IMS issues (real and hyped), general disparaging comments on the watercooled cars.

There's a chance 996 prices may come back up, eventually, but we're not at that point yet. I don't think even the 924/944 models are on the upswing just yet (then again, I may be very wrong with this as I haven't been checking prices on those).

[pothole]

Originally Posted by Deserion

Part of the disparity between 993 and 996 prices would be related directly to production figures. The 993 run produced around 63,000 cars, while the 996 run was around 162,000. Then add in IMS issues (real and hyped), general disparaging comments on the watercooled cars.

There's a chance 996 prices may come back up, eventually, but we're not at that point yet. I don't think even the 924/944 models are on the upswing just yet (then again, I may be very wrong with this as I haven't been checking prices on those).

Personally don't think values have anything to do with IMS. it's a mass market car and most people don't have a clue. People spend a fortune sorting out old 911s these days, so running costs are not the issue.

It's these issues:

1. Prod numbers
2. Old but not old enough to be considered a classic
3. 996 styling (and 986 to a lesser extent) still a bit unloved

I think the 986/996 is a fabulous car and sentiment will turn eventually. But that's years and years away.

[Homeboy981]

People seem to just want it newer IMHO.

I read an article that newer cars (under $30k) were achieving 0-60 times that rivaled our "sports cars" and older muscle cars with hundreds of HP.

…guess the days of enjoying driving are over with more people on the roads too. Who wants a standard in bumper-to-bumper? Me, I guess - only cause I will find another road.

The "sheeple" have spoken. Fun is dead.

[mnc-i]

I personally think 996 prices were too high when new and still too high as a used car now.

Of course, we only see what people want for their 996s. We don't necessarily know what they actually get for the car.

I want to purchase a 1999-2001 996, but until the prices drop I cannot justify paying over $18,000 for a Carrera that looks like my 1999 Boxster from the front, has the same lousy interior yet doesn't handle as well.

I think I will keep my Boxster for a few more years. I has over 186,000 miles and I am quite satisfied.

MNC-I

[recycledsixtie]

I think it is the fun factor in the 993. The test drive I had years ago still lingers in my brain because of the exquisite noise and feel. The water pumper 996 does not compare.

986 is relatively cheap and likely will be until more folks realize it is a lot of fun for the $$$. If Porsche engineers the fun out of its modern P cars then the older fun ones should eventually increase in value or at least hold their value.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by recycledsixtie

I think it is the fun factor in the 993. The test drive I had years ago still lingers in my brain because of the exquisite noise and feel. The water pumper 996 does not compare.

I had the opposite feeling. I found the 993 to be very mushy. Like the car was getting suddenly softer from the 964. Not nearly as sharp.
And while the 996 felt to me like it was disconnected in comparison to the air-cooled cars that came right before, fast is fast when you're talking about the one Porsche that's actually raced. I mean with the 996 you had total amateur weekend racers coming within a couple of seconds of professional 996 Cup Car lap times. That's nuts.
The 996 was a huge step forward in racing department.

[southernstar]

Perfectlap, I agree that there are no cheap Porsches and that is precisely why so many that have been (and are being) purchased cheap right now will be off the road in a the next few years. That will reduce the supply of good examples of what is already, as you say, pretty rare in many areas.

Project M96, having owned both a 944 and a 986, I disagree with your suggestion that the 944 and the 986 will ultimately be of comparable value. Consider the following:

1. The 944 recieved nowhere near the emotional response that the 986 did upon its introduction. It was, in fact, nothing more than an upgraded Porsche (or VW-Porsche) 924.
2. As a result, the 944 was and is considered by many to be something other than a 'real' Porsche sports car. The 986, however, has always been considered a 'real Porsche'.
3. Although well received, the 944 did not dominate reviews/comparison tests with its contemporaries in the way that the 986 Boxster did.
4. The 944 was a one-off model that was ultimately discontinued - the 986 was the first model of a line of sports cars (the first since the 911) that Porsche is committed to continuing.
5. The 944 was similar in layout/design to other sports cars of the period such as the Nissan Z and Mazda RX7 - front engine, rear drive, long hood and rear hatch. Far from unique, it was a Johnny-come-lately in an already saturated market. The 986, however, was a breath of fresh air. A mid-priced roadster unlike any car on the market. A car that was uniquely Porsche and recognizeable as such.
6. In that connection, design elements of the 986 harkened back to the Giant-killing Porsche 550 Spyder and the much sought-after (and also ultra valuable) Porsche Speedster; the 944 displayed no such historical connection.
7. The 986 was significant in that it is generally acknowleged to be the car that saved the marque; the 944 was simply one of two front engined cars - the 944 and 928, which were brought out by Porsche in an effort to modernize thier line and eventually discarded.
8. The 944 was never available as a roadster or cabriolet - something which all previous collectible Porsche's such as the 356 and 911 were. Over time, it is invariably the convertibles that have become the most valuable of any production model.
9. The 986 is almost universally praised for its incredible exhaust note, whereas the 944 sounded like - well, half a Porsche 928. Not bad, but hardly unique or exciting.
10. The engine in the 944 was an over-large 4 cylinder which required the installation of a balance shaft that Porsche had to license from Mitsubishi. Wow, technology shared with the Mitsubishi 4 cylinder engines used in the original Chrysler Minivans! The engine in the 986 however, was a state-of-the-art 6 cylinder, 4 cam, horizontally opposed engine with variable valve-timing.

Having owned both a 944 and a 986, I can tell you that my 944 recieved less attention even when it was a current model than my 986 does now that it is two models old. Whereas many lusted after the 986 when it was introduced, few felt the same compassion about the 944. What was true when the 944 was introduced, remains true today. It has become relegated to the status of a footnote in the history of a great marque. Does anyone othe than you really believe that the 986 - the first of the incredibly popular mid-engined Boxsters, could ever suffer the same fate?

Brad

[Meat Head]

[QUOTE=

There's a chance 996 prices may come back up, eventually, but we're not at that point yet. I don't think even the 924/944 models are on the upswing just yet (then again, I may be very wrong with this as I haven't been checking prices on those).[/QUOTE]


924s and 944 will not be classics for a VERY long time. They do not posses classic lines (very dated) and are not convertible. I was never impressed with their overall performance (I've owned both). The 944 wasn't bad but the 924 was a total POS. The fact that the Boxster is a roadster will help it in the long run. Also the fact that the Boxster was intended to look retro gives it timeless lines (reminiscent of the speedster). For the most part roadsters always demand a higher resale in the classic car world. After the Boxsters that have been abused and not well maintained go to the junk-yard you will find the well maintained versions rebound (over the next few years). In 5 years or so, if a person wishes to find a nice representation of an early Boxster it will be much harder to find. Try to find a nice early 90s Toyota MR2. Now that all the abused MR2s have died a nice version will cost $$$ (and this is a car with a much smaller sticker price). Thats just my 2 cents lol.

To say that the IMS hasn't hurt the price point of the Boxster is crazy. Think about it.....I'm considering the purchase of a sports car.....do I want a car that has the potential of total engine falure that vertually totals the car or look elswere.....hence lowereing demand, hence lowering value. The IMS problem has hurt Porsches reputation. It is not the main factor in the decrease in Boxster values but it is a major contributing factor. Now that Porsche has released the true failure rates(and the word gets out) Boxsters are going to be considered a very good value wich will slowly increase prices. Again, just my 2 cents lol.

[pothole]

Originally Posted by Meat Head

To say that the IMS hasn't hurt the price point of the Boxster is crazy. Think about it.....I'm considering the purchase of a sports car.....do I want a car that has the potential of total engine falure that vertually totals the car or look elswere.....hence lowereing demand, hence lowering value. The IMS problem has hurt Porsches reputation. It is not the main factor in the decrease in Boxster values but it is a major contributing factor. Now that Porsche has released the true failure rates(and the word gets out) Boxsters are going to be considered a very good value wich will slowly increase prices. Again, just my 2 cents lol.

You're overlooking several things.

1. The Boxster is mass market. Most people don't know about IMS issues
2. If you claim IMS has depressed values, that means they'd be higher without IMS issues.

The problem with point two is that there's no space for this to be true. Increase the price of an early 986 and you have to do the same for a late 986, as the late car is always going to be worth more at this pre-classic stage.

But then you have to adjust early 987s up and in turn late 987s.

And that just doesn't work. If you observe used values you'll see there no huge drop off from 987.2 to 987.1. The 987.2 is worth more, but the gap is no more than you'd expect for a newer model.

If you stop and think about it, you'll realise that there's really no way an early 986 can be worth a lot more than it is. From early 986s through nearly new 981s, there are a metric tonne of Boxsters out there in numbers terms. Hundreds of thousands. A few hundred or even thousand guys talking about IMS on forums is irrelevant.

And that's why they're cheap.