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Old 11-28-2012, 05:48 AM   #1
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has Porsche let us down?

Having been a victim of the dreaded IMS bearing failure at 46000 miles and out $20K to buy a new engine, I can't help but wonder why, since this is a very real problem and in my mind a design flaw why wasn't Porsche responsible enough to take the initiative to correct it. I have driven toyota trucks for decades and I can assure you that if they had had a problem like that they would have taken the responsibility to fix it. If LN industries can make a fix for it, why did not porsche do so instead of just continuing to sell expensive sports cars with a flawed design that cost a big percentage of their loyal buyers $20K to fix? Don't get me wrong, I love Porsches, bought my first in 1964 and now own 3 of them, but I sort of feel like they have let me down by not addressing a problem they knew existed and was very costly to fix. Anyone else have an opinion?

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Old 11-28-2012, 06:00 AM   #2
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that cost a big percentage of their loyal buyers $20K to fix? Don't get me wrong, I love Porsches, bought my first in 1964 and now own 3 of them, but I sort of feel like they have let me down by not addressing a problem they knew existed and was very costly to fix. Anyone else have an opinion?

Not true ("big percentage").

Says the guy with 3 Porsches.
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Old 11-28-2012, 06:02 AM   #3
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I agree totally but at least with the 2009 and newer Boxster Porsche has designed the engine to eliminate the IMS. However for those unfortunate enough to sustain an ims failure there is no consoling. You have my sympathy and it is indeed a big financial pill to swallow.

However with the replacement IMS available and IMS Guardian I am hoping the frequency of failure is less. It would be hard to go back to driving something non-Porsche but I would do what I had to do if the big engine fail occurred!
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Old 11-28-2012, 06:12 AM   #4
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Unfortunately many manufactures out there, not just porsche, have flaws in their vehicles that can cause catastrophic malfunctions with at least one component of the vehicle, ie. engines, transmissions, ect.... It is just too bad that the Porsche components are so darn expensive when they do brake.
Thankfully there are people who have designed updated components that can help alleviate these costly repairs.
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Old 11-28-2012, 06:45 AM   #5
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It's not just the car industry, I loved Kodak too but whenever there were flaws we attempted to keep our dirty laundry in house. I guess the key difference was our customers spent hundreds of thousand of dollars so even though we might have tried to use a certain level of subterfuge, we also made sure in the end the customer was made "whole again". I just finished a Porsche survey, having a 2011 apparently gets more attention than the decade old 986 I had. I did take the opportunity to tell them how they handled the failure of my 986 was disappointing and unacceptable. That I thought the google searches of angry customers not just Boxster motors was a blight on a company I respect who makes products we love. I was going to surprise you guys with the next info but it looks like as a result of all my communications I may be volunteering some hours at my local Porsche dealer, if that happens I will be able to turbo charge what I already know about Porsche cars and pass the info onto the BB. Who knows, if they end up liking me I might be able to photostat some pages from actual company repair manuals, I'll keep you all posted..
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:28 AM   #6
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Having been a victim of the dreaded IMS bearing failure at 46000 miles and out $20K to buy a new engine, I can't help but wonder why, since this is a very real problem and in my mind a design flaw why wasn't Porsche responsible enough to take the initiative to correct it. I have driven toyota trucks for decades and I can assure you that if they had had a problem like that they would have taken the responsibility to fix it. If LN industries can make a fix for it, why did not porsche do so instead of just continuing to sell expensive sports cars with a flawed design that cost a big percentage of their loyal buyers $20K to fix? Don't get me wrong, I love Porsches, bought my first in 1964 and now own 3 of them, but I sort of feel like they have let me down by not addressing a problem they knew existed and was very costly to fix. Anyone else have an opinion?
What year was the Porsche?
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:44 AM   #7
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My 986? It was a 1998 had under thirty on it but it was not purchased from a Porsche dealer, lesson learned.
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:06 AM   #8
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My sister-in-law's Mazda RX8 engine failed at 40K - the Apex seal broke and fell into the engine. Mazda replaced the engine free and extended the warranty to
eight years or 100K.
It's too bad Porsche doesn't learn customer service by watching other successful
car makers.
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:18 AM   #9
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My sister-in-law's Mazda RX8 engine failed at 40K - the Apex seal broke and fell into the engine. Mazda replaced the engine free and extended the warranty to
eight years or 100K.
It's too bad Porsche doesn't learn customer service by watching other successful
car makers.
That's an awesome customer service story. I wonder what it's like trying to get that kind of action from expensive marques? I mean does Ferrari toss you a free motor when one eats it?
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:37 AM   #10
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That's an awesome customer service story. I wonder what it's like trying to get that kind of action from expensive marques? I mean does Ferrari toss you a free motor when one eats it?
Ferrari replaced 458s damaged by fire, and even issued a recall for the defective design that led to fires. Well, as for the IMS... no recall.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:44 AM   #11
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Ferrari replaced 458s damaged by fire, and even issued a recall for the defective design that led to fires. Well, as for the IMS... no recall.
Ahhhh, that's because fire is a safety issue. Hence the recall. IMS is not a safety issue.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:49 AM   #12
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As for whether Ferrari will replace any 458 that burned because of the problem, the official reply was: "Of course."

Ferrari 458 Italia Officially Recalled

Ferrari recalls 'cursed' supercar after FIVE 458 Italias burst into flames | Mail Online

BBC News - Ferrari recalls Italia cars after reports of fires


I honestly believe that if the media picked up this story, Porsche would grudgingly offer a replacement or issue a recall, and at least admit to their engineering fault. But in the interests of preserving profits and image, they swept the IMS issue under the rug. A good company with merit and integrity would address these problems even if the major media were not involved, such as Mazda giving engine replacements to RX-8 owners. It seems these words are harsh, but justified given the abhorrent way Porsche handled this issue.
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:38 PM   #13
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How old was the RX8 at the time? I agree Porsche should do better, but they are covering engines during the warranty period, just not older 2nd-hand cars.
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:00 PM   #14
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How old was the RX8 at the time? I agree Porsche should do better, but they are covering engines during the warranty period, just not older 2nd-hand cars.
Mazda to extend warranty on RX-8 engines

Applies to second hand cars too.

If you bought an rx8 in 2004, technically the warranty would be valid to this day. Not a Mazda fan by any means, but quite an example of an auto company that stands behind their cars.
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:08 PM   #15
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How old was the RX8 at the time? I agree Porsche should do better, but they are covering engines during the warranty period, just not older 2nd-hand cars.
The car was about four years old, garage kept and well maintained.
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:39 PM   #16
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Entending the warranty to 8 years is pretty good, though that still wouldn't help the majority of 986's now.
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:43 PM   #17
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I'll take a broken Porsche any day over a running RX8.
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Old 11-28-2012, 02:03 PM   #18
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I'll take a broken Porsche any day over a running RX8.
Take the RX8 than runs and sell it, then buy the working Porsche.
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Old 11-28-2012, 04:33 PM   #19
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I honestly believe that if the media picked up this story, Porsche would grudgingly offer a replacement or issue a recall, and at least admit to their engineering fault.
60 Minutes knows about it.. Their cameraman owned a Boxster since new and the engine failed at 38K miles. The car ended up at my shop and he didn't want to fix it, so now one of my employees owns it. The cameraman told his boss about the issues and then my phone rang, but I was unwilling to say anything about the issue. If that story hit the news and we shared all of what we know you'd not be able to give a Boxster or 996 away and it wouldn't help any of the people who have had failures, or would have them in the future. There is one bit of info concerning the IMSB that we've never shared, and it alone would flip the whole story upside down.

Yesterday we documented M96 MOF#24, failure of the Intermediate Shaft Assembly.. Not the IMS Bearing. We always knew this failure was possible due to the design of the shaft; but until yesterday, we had not experienced it first hand. Here is a video that you'll find interesting from the Morgue @ Flat 6 Innovations. This MOF has no preventive possible.
M96 Mode Of Failure #24 by Flat 6 Innovations - YouTube

On another hand w just saved another engine from total loss due to IMSB Failure today... Crazy thing is it had zero IMSB Failure symptoms.

Here are some pics. Lots more of others like it elsewhere on the Flat 6 facebook page.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.546148478746285.139684.184464434914693&type=1

That said... The "IMS SOlution" is being included in all of our builds in 2013 and will be debuted soon in Panorama and Excellence. Its the first and only commercially available design change for the IMS Bearing. It is another bit of combined technology offered by Flat 6 Innovations and LN Engineering. It changes the whole game, but you won't find any mention of it on either of our websites. Not yet :-)
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Last edited by Jake Raby; 11-28-2012 at 04:38 PM.
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Old 11-28-2012, 05:18 PM   #20
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Jake: Now we're all curious. I was just talking this morning with my inde about replacing the IMSB in the next six months. Can't wait to hear about the new bearing...

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