IMS class action suit

[nefarious986]

Originally Posted by thstone

If you love the car like I do, then I could care less about re-sale value becauase its all about DRIVING value!

This x 100.

[Ghostrider 310]

Porsche should have valued their loyal customers more than they did, even 911 cars with higher window stickers went ignored much to the disappointment of their owners. Seems an exchange program or a discounted replacement at substantially reduced cost would have been honorable, after all even at 8K they are not upside down on a rebuild replacement engine only option. I hope all you guys keep your 986 cars running a good long time, when it comes to these cars knowledge is power for sure.

[landrovered]

A class action suit is the result of two lawyers with the same gripe who talk about it at a cocktail party. Once class status is awarded then the plaintiffs are simply invisible tools for lawyer spite.

I got a check in the mail from a suit I did not know I was part of. The lawyers got $0.56 and I got the remainder of the settlement which was $0.13. Don't even try to tell me that class action suits benefit ANYONE but the lawyers.

Shakespeare was right!

[cbbepop]

Originally Posted by landrovered

A class action suit is the result of two lawyers with the same gripe who talk about it at a cocktail party. Once class status is awarded then the plaintiffs are simply invisible tools for lawyer spite.

I got a check in the mail from a suit I did not know I was part of. The lawyers got $0.56 and I got the remainder of the settlement which was $0.13. Don't even try to tell me that class action suits benefit ANYONE but the lawyers.

Shakespeare was right!

The other part to law suits is that it sends Porsche the message that they need to stand by their products. A fix to the IMS problem is not rolling out the 981 LOL

Other brands BMW, AUDI all have extended warranty programs that cover certain known issues for 10 years or 100k, regardless if its first owner or not. The only way that warranty is nullified is if the car has been tuned and the drive train messed with.

An extended warranty is not a recall. Its a come in and we'll fix it if there is a problem. If Porsche feels that the IMS is a non-issue...a fluke problem if you will, then they should feel safe in lending out this warranty because the odds are they might not see one valid IMS issue claim...which we the community know is not true but that's how they are treating it as...right?

[johnsimion]

Originally Posted by landrovered

A class action suit is the result of two lawyers with the same gripe who talk about it at a cocktail party. Once class status is awarded then the plaintiffs are simply invisible tools for lawyer spite.

I got a check in the mail from a suit I did not know I was part of. The lawyers got $0.56 and I got the remainder of the settlement which was $0.13. Don't even try to tell me that class action suits benefit ANYONE but the lawyers.

Shakespeare was right!

If you refer to Shakespeare's quote from Henry VI: "THE FIRST THING WE DO, LET'S KILL ALL THE LAWYERS," you don't understand the quote. The quote was from Dick the Butcher, "the head of an army of rabble and a demagogue pandering to the ignorant," who sought to overthrow the government. If that's the best criticism of lawyers you can find, that's pretty darned pathetic. Even your example is kind of stupid. Okay, so you only got 13 cents. The lawyer at least worked for his 56 cents. You didn't. Personally I'll take all the free money I can get without whining about it.

I recently got a check for $80 from a lawyer who sued in a class action suit against the local Toyota dealer for false advertising for adding in a $400 document preparation fee to the advertised price. I bought the car two years ago and sucked it up. I figured it was a done deal. The lawyer probably got a big fee -- well, good for him! I'm glad they sued, and I got $80 back that I otherwise would have never received. It also taught these SOBs a lesson. Now, tell me again how bad the lawyers are?

[landrovered]

I really don't believe the IMS issue is as big as the internet forums and a few folks who are profiting from the hype are making it.

Talk of suing Porsche is cheap and easy for disgruntled owners. Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. Hell, one guy on this board premeditatedly purchased a car with a blown IMS and then wanted to solicit the help of people here to force Porsche dealers to pay for the repair.

The point is that this forum is just like the "rent a mob" in Bonfire of the Vanities. Six people standing behind the reporter with signs. It is an echo chamber and is not representative of the real world.

Bring in lawyers and a class action, their version of trying to "shoot the moon" in Hearts, and what you get is a big ugly mess that only serves to enrich the lawyers and does nothing for the average guy because he does not know and does not care.

[johnsimion]

Originally Posted by landrovered

Bring in lawyers and a class action, their version of trying to "shoot the moon" in Hearts, and what you get is a big ugly mess that only serves to enrich the lawyers and does nothing for the average guy because he does not know and does not care.

Lawyers don't get paid anything in class action suits unless they both win and collect. The average guy won't get anything UNLESS the lawyers sue and win. If there is no merit, nobody gets anything. The lawyers waste all their time and effort and the little guy still has nothing, which means he is no worse off than before. If the lawyers sue and win, the little guy gets "free money" with no effort whatsoever. Being a little guy, ANY compensation I get for this issue is better than what I have right now, which is NOTHING. I fail to see what could possibly be a better situation than that.

[Perfectlap]

this is the typical lawyer way of getting something done the long, expensive and less efficient way with a high probability of failure to boot.

A smart lawyer would come up with a way of getting Porsche to address the client's needs quickly. When history has proven that something is not the efficient way of serving your clients you do something different.

p.s.
Now more people will know that Porsches 1999 - 20009 (roughly) have a black cloud over them, one that may be in the very low single digits. And I'm pretty sure that these class action type lawyers will need to agree to keep that actual % of failures a secret as part of any cash payout to those suing Porsche. Any discovery would definitely be confidential during and after the class action suit. In other words don't even expect good and useful information for the consumer to be revealed. Only the perpetuation of unsupported guessing that hurts the value of cars owned by parties not involved in any law suits.

[san rensho]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

this is the typical lawyer way of getting something done the long, expensive and less efficient way with a high probability of failure to boot.

A smart lawyer would come up with a way of getting Porsche to address the client's needs quickly. When history has proven that something is not the efficient way of serving your clients you do something different.

p.s.
Now more people will know that Porsches 1999 - 20009 (roughly) have a black cloud over them, one that may be in the very low single digits. And I'm pretty sure that these class action type lawyers will need to agree to keep that actual % of failures a secret as part of any cash payout to those suing Porsche. Any discovery would definitely be confidential during and after the class action suit. In other words don't even expect good and useful information for the consumer to be revealed. Only the perpetuation of unsupported guessing that hurts the value of cars owned by parties not involved in any law suits.

I know, kidnap the wives and children of Porsches's top CEO's and mail an ear to each ceo with a ransome note composed from cut out magazine letters stating "If you don't want to see any more parts of your family in the mail, then fix this one little part on the M96/97 engines."

[landrovered]

Originally Posted by johnsimion

Lawyers don't get paid anything in class action suits unless they both win and collect. The average guy won't get anything UNLESS the lawyers sue and win. If there is no merit, nobody gets anything. The lawyers waste all their time and effort and the little guy still has nothing, which means he is no worse off than before. If the lawyers sue and win, the little guy gets "free money" with no effort whatsoever. Being a little guy, ANY compensation I get for this issue is better than what I have right now, which is NOTHING. I fail to see what could possibly be a better situation than that.

Just because a lawyer is willing to "roll the dice" on a class action suit by fronting the costs knowing that he might win big in one out of three or four cases. There is still lots of collateral damage to the companies being litigated against. You seem to forget that the company being sued still has to pay to defend itself from the lawsuit even when there is no settlement or merit to the case, so it is far from a "no harm, no foul" situation.

[Frodo]

Originally Posted by landrovered

Just because a lawyer is willing to "roll the dice" on a class action suit by fronting the costs knowing that he might win big in one out of three or four cases. There is still lots of collateral damage to the companies being litigated against. You seem to forget that the company being sued still has to pay to defend itself from the lawsuit even when there is no settlement or merit to the case, so it is far from a "no harm, no foul" situation.

Yeah, sure, but a big corporation like Porsche has a whole stable of attorneys on the payroll all the time...might as well make 'em earn their keep!

[NoGaBiker]

Originally Posted by Frodo

Yeah, sure, but a big corporation like Porsche has a whole stable of attorneys on the payroll all the time...might as well make 'em earn their keep!

Alas, they're not litigators. For that Porsche would have to retain (and pay) outside counsel.

[landrovered]

Ok, lets pretend that a class action is filed, everyone that bought a M96 gets $400 and Porsche declares bankruptcy. Would that make everyone feel better? What do you saber rattlers really want other than to ******************** and moan and complain?

[CenterIsl]

Originally Posted by landrovered

I really don't believe the IMS issue is as big as the internet forums and a few folks who are profiting from the hype are making it.

No kidding. Consumer Reports, JD Power, the German Government's automotive inspectors, and a few others (I forget but I've posted their numbers before) all say the 986 / 996 have high engine reliability, and a handful of mr. crankypants on this forum know "the real truth".

How likely are you to experience an IMS failure if you're a member of this forum? 10%? 20%? Don't even start your car without having it replaced. Oh, and make sure you don't miss the sticky at the top of this forum for the "Shortlived Boxster engine survey" - with 57 thousand members, 215 of them currently online, probably a Boxster gets added ever few minutes. Er...no...not that often...there was...let me see, 1 in the past 12 months. No, someone else had one die this weekend, so that's 2 in the past 12 months. Out of FIFTY-SEVEN THOUSAND members. Yeah, 20% sounds about right.

My guess why Jake didn't want to join the class action? Because he knows it's a non-starter, and if it were shown in court (if it made it that far) that there was in fact no basis, then his business would dry up. Either that, or you really believe mister "Tick Tick Boom" is really, truly concerned about protecting the values of your cars.

[nefarious986]

Originally Posted by CenterIsl

My guess why Jake didn't want to join the class action? Because he knows it's a non-starter, and if it were shown in court (if it made it that far) that there was in fact no basis, then his business would dry up. Either that, or you really believe mister "Tick Tick Boom" is really, truly concerned about protecting the values of your cars.

[landrovered]

Originally Posted by CenterIsl

No kidding. Consumer Reports, JD Power, the German Government's automotive inspectors, and a few others (I forget but I've posted their numbers before) all say the 986 / 996 have high engine reliability, and a handful of mr. crankypants on this forum know "the real truth".

How likely are you to experience an IMS failure if you're a member of this forum? 10%? 20%? Don't even start your car without having it replaced. Oh, and make sure you don't miss the sticky at the top of this forum for the "Shortlived Boxster engine survey" - with 57 thousand members, 215 of them currently online, probably a Boxster gets added ever few minutes. Er...no...not that often...there was...let me see, 1 in the past 12 months. No, someone else had one die this weekend, so that's 2 in the past 12 months. Out of FIFTY-SEVEN THOUSAND members. Yeah, 20% sounds about right.

My guess why Jake didn't want to join the class action? Because he knows it's a non-starter, and if it were shown in court (if it made it that far) that there was in fact no basis, then his business would dry up. Either that, or you really believe mister "Tick Tick Boom" is really, truly concerned about protecting the values of your cars.

Well stated, I could not agree more. I am glad to see a few people here are cogent and not simply full of spite, malice or greed.

[tonycarreon]

but they will get paid if there's a settlement... and settlements are usually how these things end up, unless the defendant has an airtight defense.

on my drive back home (from dallas and this time nothing broke!) i started wondering how many of these cars (IMS failures) fail on the highway and how many on closed tracks / roads. if it fails on the road and you dump oil in the middle of an interstate with cars doing 70-ish mph, i wonder what kind of safety hazard that would make.

my guess is not much, since cars would be through it before they realized it, but in the middle of a curve on the mountain, who wants to drive through a stream of oil...

[landrovered]

If the German Porsche engineers thought that the IMS was a major defect they would have changed the design in a millisecond and not kept it though the transition from 986/996 to 987/997.

Why are the Europeans not all up in arms about this? They have higher expectations than us and are right there to raise hell. Nope no noise, just the Americans BMC-ing on the internet.

[pothole]

Originally Posted by landrovered

If the German Porsche engineers thought that the IMS was a major defect they would have changed the design in a millisecond and not kept it though the transition from 986/996 to 987/997.

Why are the Europeans not all up in arms about this? They have higher expectations than us and are right there to raise hell. Nope no noise, just the Americans BMC-ing on the internet.

There are plenty of europeans complaining about IMS. But this particular forum is US centric. So it goes.

That said, I'm not clear on what Porsche buyers in the Fatherland think about the whole thing.

I also disagree re your point about the engineers. They can't just change anything they fancy. The need funding. If they're not given the money to re-engineer, it's not happening. My guess is that there will have been engineers who thought the situation was pretty rum but could do nothing about it.

[Ghostrider 310]

Originally Posted by pothole

There are plenty of europeans complaining about IMS. But this particular forum is US centric. So it goes.

That said, I'm not clear on what Porsche buyers in the Fatherland think about the whole thing.

I also disagree re your point about the engineers. They can't just change anything they fancy. The need funding. If they're not given the money to re-engineer, it's not happening. My guess is that there will have been engineers who thought the situation was pretty rum but could do nothing about it.

Everything Pothole says in this post is true, I would not be surprised to find that Porsche engineers knew it was potentially a problem before the first car shipped. Ask NASA engineers if they told the idiots to put a hold on the Challenger launch based on temperature and gasket failure, this stuff happens every day.