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Old 06-15-2012, 05:40 PM   #1
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IMS class action suit

While searching around the Pelican site, I found this ad link

Porsche IMS Failure : NEW JERSEY CLASS ACTION ATTORNEY | NJ MASS TORT LAWYER

Looks like a firm is looking for potential clients and evidence to support a class action suit against Porsche for the IMS failures.

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Old 06-15-2012, 05:44 PM   #2
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In my experience, the ONLY people who win in a class action suit are the lawyers who organize the class action suit.

They are basically a pyramid scheme.
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Old 06-15-2012, 10:01 PM   #3
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Hrmm interesting. As much as I am a Porsche aficionado, I would have to say Porsche pulled a scumbag move in regards to addressing the m96 IMS issues. It's a shame it's escalated to this point. I am interested to see how this goes. Sadly, LAP1DOUG, you are probably right about the lawyers being the only winners in the suit. It would be far more conducive to have your say in a small claims court as a victim of flawed design and negligence on behalf of Porsche.

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Old 06-16-2012, 02:54 AM   #4
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I don't understand how you can say that the only people who win in a class action suit are the lawyers who organize it. Let's say that a class action is started against Porsche for IMSB defective design and it is successful and everyone who ever purchased a car with the defective design is given a free oil change at a dealership (value $200), whether you experienced engine failure or not. Those who had a failure may be awarded more. At that point, if you didn't have a failure, you have a free oil change and it didn't cost you anything. No one asked you to contribute to the costs of the suit or participate in any way. You didn't have to go to court or hire an expert witness. All you had to do was maybe fill out a form and mail it back. Who cares how much money the lawyers make? What if Porsche doesn't settle and the case has to go to trial? You don't pay anything. If the class action fails, which is much more likely than for it to succeed, the lawyers who started the class action get nothing and are out all of their costs, expenses and time. Again, you don't pay anything. As I see it, since Porsche has offered NOTHING to M96 engine owners, anything you get from a class action suit is a bonus. If Porsche were covering even a part of the cost of engine upgrades or repairs, there would be no need for a class action suit and I might think differently about it. As far as small claims court is concerned, it is a good idea if your claim is for failure to repair something under warranty or other circumstances where expert testimony is not required. In the case of the IMSB, you can't prove defective design without expert testimony and unless you are Jake you will have to hire an expert at significant cost, if you can find one, to testify. This often makes it cost prohibitive for an individual to prosecute a case for a single car. The prospective award is often outweighed by the cost involved. Just my two cents.
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Old 06-16-2012, 03:31 AM   #5
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Would'nt Porsche be insured against this? You can bet that if a class action suit proceeds, Porsche will bring in their liabilty insurers as a third party. It really could be a win if Porsche and the insurers share the cost of a succesful suit.
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Old 06-16-2012, 03:47 AM   #6
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Small claims court will ONLY AWARD A MAXIMUM of $5,000 in most states. That would not begin to cover some people's actual loss. Porsche should stand up and do what is right. It is a shame you have to force them to do it with an attorney because, everyone loses with an attorney! Your BEST DAY in COURT IS STILL THE WORST DAY OF YOUR LIFE - WIN or LOSE. Bummer when you have to resort to that low level.
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Old 06-16-2012, 04:51 AM   #7
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I fail to see how any legal action whether it be small claims court or class action suit could be successful against Porsche. Once your Porsche is out of warranty you are not covered. If you buy an unwarranted Porsche, it is caveat emptor/buyer beware just like any other car. I am not a lawyer, just a layperson and I would think any legal action would be unsuccessful and then you would be in the hole for the legal costs. Any person who does not do their research on a car before they buy it is negligent. I feel sorry for anybody that has IMS failure and subsequent engine failure but being forewarned = $$$ saved. Get an IMS Guardian and/or get a new IMS installed.You cannot run a Boxster as cheaply as a Miata but then the Boxster is a lot more car.I would be interested how many of you out there knew about IMS failure before you bought your Boxster?
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Old 06-16-2012, 07:04 AM   #8
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IMO, Linklaw is correct (obviously a Grisham fan)

Homeboy is also right but needs to add that a victory in small claims court only gets you an acknowledgement of liability (a judgement). You're still on your own to actually collect on that judgement through a garnishing order if the compant doesn't willingly pay. I don't know about the states, but here the upper limit on small claims action was raised a few years back. It's now either $10k or $20k - I don't remember.

Recycled - you're wrong. For example, people have won suits against firearms manufacturers years after warranty expired, and for issues arising from their own stupidity and no fault of the gun at all. Hence the warning stamped on the barrel of Ruger firearms. I've never understood the American legal system where companies can be successfully sued for not anticipating just how fkn stupid their customers are.
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Old 06-16-2012, 08:34 AM   #9
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Am I wrong in assuming you would actually have to have suffered damages (e.g. bearing failure) to be entitled to anything? I find it hard be believe a 2nd or 3rd owner without any actual damages would be entitled to a thing, even if they took preventative measures.
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Old 06-16-2012, 08:40 AM   #10
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Im worried what a class action, if media gets hold of it, will do to the already sinking values of our cars!
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Old 06-16-2012, 08:59 AM   #11
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The values of these cars will decrease no matter what to the point where ims preventive or post failure repairs on them will one day exceed their sales value. So as someone said in another post: if you like the boxster and already aware of the ims issue, you still will buy it and if their value drops then you can be able to maintain them for thousands cheaper so win win.
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Old 06-16-2012, 10:54 AM   #12
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A 1999 Boxster with 100,000 miles has already dropped to ~$8,500 on KBB and every model year thereafter is on the same downward slope. There is almost no intrinsic Porsche brand value that is retained in a 986 Boxster - its a used car and not much more. Of course, well cared and well optioned cars will always be worth slightly more.

If you love the car like I do, then I could care less about re-sale value becauase its all about DRIVING value!
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Old 06-16-2012, 11:03 AM   #13
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Yep Porsche maybe shoulda come up with a better design. Maybe they shoulda figured out the problem sooner and developed a retrofit. Maybe these cars wouldn't be so damn fun to drive. Stuff happens and I can't be bothered. I think a class action suit has a snowballs chance in hell of returning anything to actual car owners. I'll pass thanks.
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Old 06-16-2012, 01:56 PM   #14
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Sounds so pragmatic... in theory. Too bad it wouldn't resemble a damn thing like that once trial lawyers sink their teeth into it. Free oil change? Ha! Owners would be lucky to end up with a free crush washer for the oil drain plug... after providing proof they've paid for six previous oil changes in same vehicle...within x time frame... etc. etc. etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by linklaw View Post
I don't understan d how you can say that the only people who win in a class action suit are the lawyers who organize it. Let's say that a class action is started against Porsche for IMSB defective design and it is successful and everyone who ever purchased a car with the defective design is given a free oil change at a dealership (value $200), whether you experienced engine failure or not. Those who had a failure may be awarded more. At that point, if you didn't have a failure, you have a free oil change and it didn't cost you anything. No one asked you to contribute to the costs of the suit or participate in any way. You didn't have to go to court or hire an expert witness. All you had to do was maybe fill out a form and mail it back. Who cares how much money the lawyers make? What if Porsche doesn't settle and the case has to go to trial? You don't pay anything. If the class action fails, which is much more likely than for it to succeed, the lawyers who started the class action get nothing and are out all of their costs, expenses and time. Again, you don't pay anything. As I see it, since Porsche has offered NOTHING to M96 engine owners, anything you get from a class action suit is a bonus. If Porsche were covering even a part of the cost of engine upgrades or repairs, there would be no need for a class action suit and I might think differently about it. As far as small claims court is concerned, it is a good idea if your claim is for failure to repair something under warranty or other circumstances where expert testimony is not required. In the case of the IMSB, you can't prove defective design without expert testimony and unless you are Jake you will have to hire an expert at significant cost, if you can find one, to testify. This often makes it cost prohibitive for an individual to prosecute a case for a single car. The prospective award is often outweighed by the cost involved. Just my two cents.
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Old 06-16-2012, 02:04 PM   #15
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Porsche should have valued their loyal customers more than they did, even 911 cars with higher window stickers went ignored much to the disappointment of their owners. Seems an exchange program or a discounted replacement at substantially reduced cost would have been honorable, after all even at 8K they are not upside down on a rebuild replacement engine only option. I hope all you guys keep your 986 cars running a good long time, when it comes to these cars knowledge is power for sure.
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Old 06-17-2012, 03:34 AM   #16
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A class action suit is the result of two lawyers with the same gripe who talk about it at a cocktail party. Once class status is awarded then the plaintiffs are simply invisible tools for lawyer spite.

I got a check in the mail from a suit I did not know I was part of. The lawyers got $0.56 and I got the remainder of the settlement which was $0.13. Don't even try to tell me that class action suits benefit ANYONE but the lawyers.

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Old 06-17-2012, 03:58 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thstone View Post
A 1999 Boxster with 100,000 miles has already dropped to ~$8,500 on KBB and every model year thereafter is on the same downward slope. There is almost no intrinsic Porsche brand value that is retained in a 986 Boxster - its a used car and not much more. Of course, well cared and well optioned cars will always be worth slightly more.

If you love the car like I do, then I could care less about re-sale value becauase its all about DRIVING value!
right, but they will hold SOME value.....a S should at least hold value simlilar to a 951 in the long term, but Im afraid if a class action suit goes through and more people besides internet forums find out about a possible issue then the cars will be worth less than 924's
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Old 06-17-2012, 06:56 AM   #18
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A class action suit is the result of two lawyers with the same gripe who talk about it at a cocktail party. Once class status is awarded then the plaintiffs are simply invisible tools for lawyer spite.

I got a check in the mail from a suit I did not know I was part of. The lawyers got $0.56 and I got the remainder of the settlement which was $0.13. Don't even try to tell me that class action suits benefit ANYONE but the lawyers.

Shakespeare was right!
The other part to law suits is that it sends Porsche the message that they need to stand by their products. A fix to the IMS problem is not rolling out the 981 LOL

Other brands BMW, AUDI all have extended warranty programs that cover certain known issues for 10 years or 100k, regardless if its first owner or not. The only way that warranty is nullified is if the car has been tuned and the drive train messed with.

An extended warranty is not a recall. Its a come in and we'll fix it if there is a problem. If Porsche feels that the IMS is a non-issue...a fluke problem if you will, then they should feel safe in lending out this warranty because the odds are they might not see one valid IMS issue claim...which we the community know is not true but that's how they are treating it as...right?
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Old 06-17-2012, 09:46 AM   #19
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I really don't believe the IMS issue is as big as the internet forums and a few folks who are profiting from the hype are making it.

Talk of suing Porsche is cheap and easy for disgruntled owners. Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. Hell, one guy on this board premeditatedly purchased a car with a blown IMS and then wanted to solicit the help of people here to force Porsche dealers to pay for the repair.

The point is that this forum is just like the "rent a mob" in Bonfire of the Vanities. Six people standing behind the reporter with signs. It is an echo chamber and is not representative of the real world.

Bring in lawyers and a class action, their version of trying to "shoot the moon" in Hearts, and what you get is a big ugly mess that only serves to enrich the lawyers and does nothing for the average guy because he does not know and does not care.
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Old 06-18-2012, 03:52 AM   #20
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A class action suit is the result of two lawyers with the same gripe who talk about it at a cocktail party. Once class status is awarded then the plaintiffs are simply invisible tools for lawyer spite.

I got a check in the mail from a suit I did not know I was part of. The lawyers got $0.56 and I got the remainder of the settlement which was $0.13. Don't even try to tell me that class action suits benefit ANYONE but the lawyers.

Shakespeare was right!
If you refer to Shakespeare's quote from Henry VI: "THE FIRST THING WE DO, LET'S KILL ALL THE LAWYERS," you don't understand the quote. The quote was from Dick the Butcher, "the head of an army of rabble and a demagogue pandering to the ignorant," who sought to overthrow the government. If that's the best criticism of lawyers you can find, that's pretty darned pathetic. Even your example is kind of stupid. Okay, so you only got 13 cents. The lawyer at least worked for his 56 cents. You didn't. Personally I'll take all the free money I can get without whining about it.

I recently got a check for $80 from a lawyer who sued in a class action suit against the local Toyota dealer for false advertising for adding in a $400 document preparation fee to the advertised price. I bought the car two years ago and sucked it up. I figured it was a done deal. The lawyer probably got a big fee -- well, good for him! I'm glad they sued, and I got $80 back that I otherwise would have never received. It also taught these SOBs a lesson. Now, tell me again how bad the lawyers are?

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