IMS Failure is not a Myth.

[Series9]

We just caught this one. The customer called me saying there was a bad noise coming from the bell housing.

I told him to not run the engine any more and then went to get it with my trailer.

I just got started, but look what I found in the filter:

[Series9]

In the pan:

[jsceash]

Originally Posted by Series9

In the pan:

I might be stepping out on a limb here but he has a non-stock baffle in the pan. We all know the consequences of racing these engines. Is some of this self inflicted. I'm planning to run mine again in 30 days. If it would go bad I won't swear at the IMS gods. It is a chance I knew increased the possibility

[RobbieKnobbie]

+1

After many years in the machine design business, one thing I have learned is that Bearing Failure Is A Process... Not An Event.

I'm not trying to excuse anyone... the better the design, the longer the process, but the statistical failure rate seems low (though not necessarily compared to many cars) enough that there are definitely outside factors beyond just a poor bearing selection.

[feelyx]

Series9, Will you do me a favor when you inspect the bearing, will you tell me if there is any traces of grease in the bearing?
What year and mileage?
Thanks

[Series9]

Originally Posted by feelyx

Series9, Will you do me a favor when you inspect the bearing, will you tell me if there is any traces of grease in the bearing?
What year and mileage?
Thanks

I'll have the bearing out tomorrow and will take pictures.

2003 118k.

[feelyx]

Thank you Sir

[jcb986]

2003 with 118K...not bad for going that long and now having IMS bearing going out. At 118K this engine should have a major overhaul.

[Series9]

Bad news. The engine has been previously replaced and this bearing isn't serviceable.

[jcb986]

If it's not a 3.2, now's the time for change. Let's see...03 with 118K on it with a crapped out engine...$2500- $3500 for the bones. A decent used engine $5500-$8500. Guess the time is now for this owner to look for a newer boxster.

[Series9]

Originally Posted by jcb986

If it's not a 3.2, now's the time for change. Let's see...03 with 118K on it with a crapped out engine...$2500- $3500 for the bones. A decent used engine $5500-$8500. Guess the time is now for this owner to look for a newer boxster.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. This is a 2003 911.

The engine was replaced at 67k miles with an IMS failure. This is number two for this vehicle.

Those of you who think this is a 3% thing are dreaming.

[ryanwise]

Series 9...................
Why isn't the bearing Serviceable. Not disputing...just have never heard of that before.

[coreseller]

double tap....ooops

[coreseller]

Originally Posted by ryanwise

Series 9...................
Why isn't the bearing Serviceable. Not disputing...just have never heard of that before.

Newer designed bearings require splitting the engine case for removal, older / original IMS bearing designs could be removed with a puller while the motor stayed intact / assembled while in car. Man, 2 motors kaput in a 911, that'd be enough for me.

[thstone]

Originally Posted by Series9

Those of you who think this is a 3% thing are dreaming.

Well, no one thinks that the IMS failure is a myth. Its real and it happens. No doubt about it.

However, with over 200,000 Boxsters sold, if the failure rate is 5% or greater then there should be something like 10,000+ cars failed.

LN hasn't sold anywhere close to 10,000 replacement bearings. Sure, maybe some people part out the car rather than repair it but then you also have to take into account that some large percentage of LN bearing sales go to cars that have never had a bearing failure in the first place (preventative replacement). Other owners might find a salvage engine from a car that was totaled in an accident but there aren't 10,000 of those either. And last, if the numbers were that high then the aftermarket/eBay would also be flooded with failed engine Boxsters and we just don't see any of this happening.

The only conclusion is that the engine failure rate is much less then 5% (or failed Boxsters are with all of the socks that disappear from the dryer).

[Series9]

Originally Posted by thstone

With over 200,000 Boxsters sold, if the failure rate is 5% or greater then there should be something like 10,000+ cars failed.

LN hasn't sold anywhere close to 10,000 replacement bearings. Sure, maybe some people part out the car rather than repair it but then you also have to take into account that some large percentage of LN bearing sales go to cars that have never had a bearing failure in the first place (preventative replacement).

With more than 10,000 cars suffering failed engines, the aftermarket/eBay would also be flooded with failed engine Boxsters and we just don't see that.

The only conclusion is that the engine failure rate is much less then 5% (or failed Boxsters are with all of the socks that disappear from the dryer).

As the owner of an independent Porsche shop, I have to respectfully disagree.

This single VIN has experienced TWO failures in 118k miles.

All I can report is what I see. What I see is between 10 and 20 percent.

[silver arrow]

Originally Posted by thstone

Well, no one thinks that the IMS failure is a myth. Its real and it happens. No doubt about it.

However, with over 200,000 Boxsters sold, if the failure rate is 5% or greater then there should be something like 10,000+ cars failed.

LN hasn't sold anywhere close to 10,000 replacement bearings. Sure, maybe some people part out the car rather than repair it but then you also have to take into account that some large percentage of LN bearing sales go to cars that have never had a bearing failure in the first place (preventative replacement). Other owners might find a salvage engine from a car that was totaled in an accident but there aren't 10,000 of those either. And last, if the numbers were that high then the aftermarket/eBay would also be flooded with failed engine Boxsters and we just don't see any of this happening.

The only conclusion is that the engine failure rate is much less then 5% (or failed Boxsters are with all of the socks that disappear from the dryer).

If I recall, LN estimated 20%+ failure rate. You aren't accounting for cars that got new engines through Porsche, rebuilt with the stock IMS (which was the only option before LN, and the cars that were just junked or parted out). At this point, many Boxsters aren't worth fixing if the engine fails. Sad, but true.

[JFP in PA]

And some people still claim that the "final solution" large diameter IMS bearing used from 2005 on (and in replaced/rebuilt engines after 2005) "solved the problem" and won't fail......... Right, just keep drinking the Kool Aid..............

[thstone]

As expected, each individual shop will see different numbers. Its the aggregate that makes up the big picture.

But please do not take my comments out of context. For the owners of cars with failed IMSB, the fact that it happens at all (and twice to one car) is obscene and Porsche really should do something about it.

And thanks for the pic's. Very informative.

[WhipE350]

When I was at the 'New' 911 opening there was an engineer/mechanic there to answer questions. We talked for a long time and he was very knowledgeable. The one thing he was strictly not allowed to talk about was IMS. He couldn’t even enjoy my story about recently changing mine...I guess that would have been considered acknowledgement.