IMS Upgrade - Should I have it done

[Jake Raby]

IMS seal material is rubber, not magnetic.. To properly inspect for damaged bearings requires an extensive inspection of the oil filter element as well as the engine's oil sump plate.

Taking your chances on the IMS is certainly your choice. Lots of people have learned that hindsight is much more clear than 20/20. As long as you know that up front, you are making a well informed decision.

[Steve Tinker]

To check for engine debris, you need to cut open the old filter and flatten out the pleated paper element.
Metal particles are shiny and can be ferrous (magnetic) or aluminium (non-magnetic).
Black plastic can be from the IMS bearing seal / various plastic engine internals.
Browny red plastic can be from worn chain tensioners.
One guy found green plastic in his filter but the verdict was out (I think) on what the cause of that was.

[Jim Miller]

I found a local Porsche repair place "Ralf's Auto Repair" in Reisterstown MD, not sure if anyone knows them. Nice guy, he recommended changing the IMS bearing out and was aware of the LNengineering retrofit.

Should I also have the RMS replaced also? Anything else. Car has 32,000 miles (99).

[ppbon]

... a man's prostate.
Give it enough time and it will develop cancer.

Even on engines that are driven very hard, with time they will fail.
Just like jake Raby, I've seen that "normal" daily drivers tend to fail sooner than later, but even engines with many, many track miles fail.
Mine was caught in time with 196,000 miles on it (22,000 were track miles).
When I pulled it the bearing was very worn and wobbly and would have failed in a few thousand more miles.

My recommendation to anyone how's worried is ... just do it.
You're purchasing peace of mind.
Once you retrofit, go have fun again.

Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by Jim Miller

I found a local Porsche repair place "Ralf's Auto Repair" in Reisterstown MD, not sure if anyone knows them. Nice guy, he recommended changing the IMS bearing out and was aware of the LNengineering retrofit.

Should I also have the RMS replaced also? Anything else. Car has 32,000 miles (99).

He can't be all that bad if he is current with the technology surrounding the IMS retrofit..

When you go "in" to the bellhouse area ALWAYS address the IMS, RMS and clutch. Even with 32K miles I'll bet that clutch disc it at least 50% worn.

Doing less just isn't smart. I don't allow people to make bad decisions, thats why my procedure goes all the way or not at all..

[SoK]

Originally Posted by Jim Miller

I found a local Porsche repair place "Ralf's Auto Repair" in Reisterstown MD, not sure if anyone knows them. Nice guy, he recommended changing the IMS bearing out and was aware of the LNengineering retrofit.

Should I also have the RMS replaced also? Anything else. Car has 32,000 miles (99).

Jim,

I just bought a 2001 Boxster with 42k miles last Wednesday, pristine in and out. It has a slight oil leak though, which I was aware of when purchasing and for which I paid the appropriate price. I'm taking it to the Cincinnati Porsche dealer Friday. Their rate is $1168.82 after tax to replace the IMS/RMS (most recent Porsche updates), oil/filter, full inspection/lubrication and a 2 year/24k mile powertrain warranty after the work is done. They're also giving me a rental for the 2 days they'll have the vehicle.

I priced out a warranty with a company I know of being in the insurance business, and the warranty alone on this car was $2400/year. I'm now paying half of that for at least a 4 or 5 year fix WITH a 2 year warranty.

Try calling a local Porsche dealer and see if you receive a similar number. I was very excited to hear this directly from the dealer.

[jmatta]

SoK, tell me you're not considering having Porsche replace the IMS bearing with the same old piece of junk? If you're going through the effort and expense, the LN update is the only logical solution and minimal difference in cost.

[mikefocke]

SoK, that price doesn't make sense to me. The labor to remove and replace (R&R) the transmission to get at the bearings is almost as much as you are being quoted. To expect them to add a 2 year warranty on the entire engine for almost nothing more just doesn't strike me as consistent with the experiences and costs I've read about.

Nothing wrong with the Porsche-part RMS seal if it is the latest from Porsche.

Everything wrong with the IMS bearing and seal if it is from Porsche as none of their bearing/seal revisions have proven to not fail in a small percentage of cars and when they do fail they very often take the engine down with them to the point where a complete rebuild is necessary (assuming it is even still possible).

For the dealer to assume the risk of a new engine ($10k-$14k from Porsche) for peanuts doesn't make economic sense to me as a 2 year warranty alone is usually much more than your quote.

Call the dealer and at least ask him: Does the quote include both the Rear Main Seal and the IMS bearing and seal replacement? Parts and labor? Does it include an oil and oil filter change? What warranty do I get...on the work done or the entire engine? Who backs the warranty? Is it usable anywhere but at your dealership?

Good luck.

[SoK]

Originally Posted by jmatta

SoK, tell me you're not considering having Porsche replace the IMS bearing with the same old piece of junk? If you're going through the effort and expense, the LN update is the only logical solution and minimal difference in cost.

Porsche no longer uses the same old junk they did in 2001, everything has been updated with the new iterations of the boxer engine.

Regardless of that, the theme I've gathered from this thread is that these IMS/RMS issues stem from a lack of use. My Boxster is a daily driver now, year round, so I don't expect the same issues from this parts this time around.

[SoK]

Originally Posted by mikefocke

SoK, that price doesn't make sense to me. The labor to remove and replace (R&R) the transmission to get at the bearings is almost as much as you are being quoted. To expect them to add a 2 year warranty on the entire engine for almost nothing more just doesn't strike me as consistent with the experiences and costs I've read about.

Nothing wrong with the Porsche-part RMS seal if it is the latest from Porsche.

Everything wrong with the IMS bearing and seal if it is from Porsche as none of their bearing/seal revisions have proven to not fail in a small percentage of cars and when they do fail they very often take the engine down with them to the point where a complete rebuild is necessary (assuming it is even still possible).

For the dealer to assume the risk of a new engine ($10k-$14k from Porsche) for peanuts doesn't make economic sense to me as a 2 year warranty alone is usually much more than your quote.

Call the dealer and at least ask him: Does the quote include both the Rear Main Seal and the IMS bearing and seal replacement? Parts and labor? Does it include an oil and oil filter change? What warranty do I get...on the work done or the entire engine? Who backs the warranty? Is it usable anywhere but at your dealership?

Good luck.

I did verify each and every one of those exact question's while I had them on the phone. The person in service I spoke with was familiar with the IMS/RMS issues, as well as the retrofits being done. That's why I jumped at the price as opposed to having you all do it. I want it done either way.

I'll be sure to post the work order up this weekend as they complete everything.

[jmatta]

"Porsche no longer uses the same old junk they did in 2001"

Not much better than the bearing used in 2001...I wouldn't consider anything other than the LN unit, unless you want to replace it every twenty five thousand miles and still take a chance of a premature failure. Seems as though they finally got the RMS correct.

[Jim Miller]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

He can't be all that bad if he is current with the technology surrounding the IMS retrofit..

When you go "in" to the bellhouse area ALWAYS address the IMS, RMS and clutch. Even with 32K miles I'll bet that clutch disc it at least 50% worn.

Doing less just isn't smart. I don't allow people to make bad decisions, thats why my procedure goes all the way or not at all..

Jake, the guy knew who you were, your famous. Regarding the clutch, would you put a new one in if 50% worn. Why do they wear so fast. I have a 1989 325i with 140+ miles on it was only 50% worn when I had it taken apart have a transmission leak fixed.

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by Jim Miller

Jake, the guy knew who you were, your famous. Regarding the clutch, would you put a new one in if 50% worn. Why do they wear so fast. I have a 1989 325i with 140+ miles on it was only 50% worn when I had it taken apart have a transmission leak fixed.

Jim.... I am well known. Some love me. Some hate me. Most know me :-)

Be logical here.. If the clutch has 50% life gone, it only has 50% left, so that means you can do everything at once and pay get FREE LABOR to swap out the clutch now... OR in a couple of years you can spend another 1K to 1500 bucks to have the clutch replaced.

The last 50% of the disc wears faster than the first 50%. Do it all while you are there and it'll be 5+ years before you need to do anything to that part of the car.

[JTP]

Originally Posted by ppbon

The IMS Bearing in a Boxster is like ...
... a man's prostate.

So getting a retrofit is like getting a prostate check: unpleasant, uncomfortable, but a necessary procedure when you're over 50.
If you don't get it addressed, a doctor's fist is going to be in there removing the cancer which is propably what a blown motor is going to feel like.
Pedro, thanks for the ANALogy!

[mikefocke]

produced an IMS design for the Boxster that isn't know to fail. They continued to use an inner seal which fails and a bearing which is not the best. The combination continued to fail through three iterations as long as the IMS was used. And all Porsche supplied replacement parts will use the same known to fail IMS design.

I'm not saying all will fail this year, but a certain small percentage will. And next year the same. Etc. Until the percentage of engines with failures starts to accumulate to a noticeable number.

Good luck Sok

[SoK]

What are the pro's and con's to the updated Porsche OEM IMS bearing vs. the LN unit? What are the major differences?

I really appreciate all the help, I'm still very new to these cars.

Originally Posted by jmatta

"Porsche no longer uses the same old junk they did in 2001"

Not much better than the bearing used in 2001...I wouldn't consider anything other than the LN unit, unless you want to replace it every twenty five thousand miles and still take a chance of a premature failure. Seems as though they finally got the RMS correct.

[SoK]

You answered me before I posted lol.. It seems like the retrofit is only a temporary fix from what I'm reading. I thought I read it's good practice to replace that every 5 or so years, just as it would be standard practice to replace the OEM IMS bearing.

My stock bearing is going on 10 years (though I obviously don't know it's condition). If we're being quoted to replace the retrofit around 5 or 6, what's the difference (aside from cost and supporting a community sponsor) in going through Porsche for this particular bit of maintenance, especially when they back it up for 2 years/24k miles?

Thanks again

Originally Posted by mikefocke

produced an IMS design for the Boxster that isn't know to fail. They continued to use an inner seal which fails and a bearing which is not the best. The combination continued to fail through three iterations as long as the IMS was used. And all Porsche supplied replacement parts will use the same known to fail IMS design.

I'm not saying all will fail this year, but a certain small percentage will. And next year the same. Etc. Until the percentage of engines with failures starts to accumulate to a noticeable number.

Good luck Sok

[Steve Tinker]

Jim, regarding your clutch, replacing it when the IMS / RMS is exposed really makes economic sense. The clutch plates may well be only 50% worn, but that's only one part of the clutch assembly - you still have to think about the release bearing wear and fingers breaking. If you change it out now, there is also a very good chance that your flywheel is still servicable too - which saves another $1,000 in replacement costs
Only a month ago I had the LN bearing and new RMS replaced with a new clutch kit. The clutch was original with 47,000 miles on it and the linings were +/- 50% worn. But the release bearing was shot - loose and rattly.
The new clutch action is far superior in feel and takeup - and the best thing is that I don't have to worry about any of it for the next 50,000 miles

[stuklr]

Jake, Just a quick question having to do with the IMS. Are all the metal particles they shave off while failing ferrous? Can i drag a magnet across my oil filter when changing and detect bearing material or just watch for shiny stuff?

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by stuklr

Jake, Just a quick question having to do with the IMS. Are all the metal particles they shave off while failing ferrous? Can i drag a magnet across my oil filter when changing and detect bearing material or just watch for shiny stuff?

If the bearing gets that far, the engine is pretty much toast in most instances.