IMS Upgrade - Should I have it done - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

Jim Miller · 10-19-2010, 04:01 PM

Wow, just about ready to buy a 1999 Boxster. Appears to be a really clean car with 30K miles. I have been reading these IMS bearing failure and I'm getting this uneasy feeling.

What is the frequency of this occurring? Should I have the bearing upgraded?
What is the consensus here? :dance:

Jake Raby · 10-19-2010, 04:34 PM

Sounds like a classisc victim... Low mileage, clean, probably hasn't been driven enough to see short interval oil services, etc, etc.

Read this and the links that you'll find inside the article
http://www.flat6innovations.com/services/intermediate-shaft-retrofit

If you have the opportunity to ask the question that you have posted here, then yes you should have the IMS bearing retrofitted.

Thus far this week we have saved one engine from IMS bearing failure (just today) and have had 3 IMS failure calls come in from various parts of the country. One of those that failed did so at 27K miles.

Low mileage, clean cars that haven't been serviced frequently enough and haven't been driven hard enough are what we see fail most.. The other day someone asked me how he should drive his car to help avoid a failure... My answer??? "You can't drive it hard enough".

CVstarBoxster · 10-19-2010, 05:09 PM

How much does the IMS retrofit cost? That's the same as upgrade right?

Jim Miller · 10-19-2010, 05:21 PM

How much is the cost typically and does anyone know anyone in the Baltimore area that I can have do it? I do most of my own maintenance but this looks a little more than I want to handle.

davemon · 10-19-2010, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Miller

How much is the cost typically and does anyone know anyone in the Baltimore area that I can have do it? I do most of my own maintenance but this looks a little more than I want to handle.

LNEngineering has a list of approved servicers IIRC, there is a list somewhere on that site.

On your vehicle, (and I'm just a lowly "owner", Jake and others are the authorities here) I'd get it done unless you're sure you'd want to run the risk of a 10k+ replacement. If you have the tranny pulled be sure to get the RMS while you're in there too.

Good luck.

yelojkt · 10-19-2010, 07:04 PM

The IMS bearing retrofit can cost you just under $800.00 if you do the work yourself.

Steve Tinker · 10-19-2010, 08:44 PM

Jim,
I guess your 1999 Boxster isn't worth very much in the US, but saying that, the car was an expensive item when new. At 30,000 miles you are driving a vehicle that is only just nicely run in, so with the correct maintenance regime in place, you could well be driving it for the next 100,000 miles.
You dont say how often the car has been serviced, how long its been stood idle or if it was garaged all its life - these things really have an impact on the condition of the electro-mechanical workings (read reliability) of the car.
Get the IMS replaced by a reputable shop, together with a new clutch and updated RMS. You then don't have to worry about that concern for the next 50,000 miles.

Next step is go through the car maintenance as per book (coolant, brake fluid, filters etc. Apart from engine oil & filter which really should be replaced every 5,000-7,500 miles regardless of what the Porsche maintenance schedule says.

Even without the IMS retrofit, budget the initial maintenance costs to be at least $1,000 if you do it all yourself or at least $2,000 if you pay someone to do it.
Then enjoy it........

Jim Miller · 10-19-2010, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

Sounds like a classisc victim... Low mileage, clean, probably hasn't been driven enough to see short interval oil services, etc, etc.

Read this and the links that you'll find inside the article
http://www.flat6innovations.com/services/intermediate-shaft-retrofit

If you have the opportunity to ask the question that you have posted here, then yes you should have the IMS bearing retrofitted.

Thus far this week we have saved one engine from IMS bearing failure (just today) and have had 3 IMS failure calls come in from various parts of the country. One of those that failed did so at 27K miles.

Low mileage, clean cars that haven't been serviced frequently enough and haven't been driven hard enough are what we see fail most.. The other day someone asked me how he should drive his car to help avoid a failure... My answer??? "You can't drive it hard enough".

Jake

How long does it take to do the work and approximate cost? Would it be possible to arrange a time were I drive it down, I have you guys do the work and I drive back.

eightsandaces · 10-20-2010, 02:19 AM

With all due respect, I have a 1998 that just crossed 32,000 it runs better than any car I've ever owned and revs freely right to the yellow line. I'm just tired of the urban legends about 986's and which ones are going to break. It's about as accurate as predicting the stock market.

Jake Raby · 10-20-2010, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Miller

Jake

How long does it take to do the work and approximate cost? Would it be possible to arrange a time were I drive it down, I have you guys do the work and I drive back.

Sir,
please read the link I provided.. It's 8000 words all about our IMSR procedure, exact cost and turnaround if you ship the car down or choose drive it down and wait on the work to be done. In my link I explain the difference between and IMSR and a full blown IMS upgrade that requires complete engine disassembly.

We work from a well organized schedule so after reading my link on the Flat 6IMS procedure a quick email or call to my Office could answer the rest of the questions you have. My assistant, Dean can also set you up with a phone chat with me.

We do lots of out of state IMSR procedures and others here can share their experiences with my company and procedures. I am in the middle of a procedure for an ou of state client now, he thought he had a full blown failure when the car arrived, but he didn't so I made a simple AOS repair and then he decided to do an IMSR while the car was here. That owner is a member here and I have been posting the info to a thread he started here when his engine supposedly failed. Today I'll be posting the IMSR procedure pics to that thread, you'll learn a lot from that thread.

BTW a lot can be learned from poster mts as he was basically in waiting for an upgraded engine from us or an IMSR procedure when he had a bearing failure.

Jim Miller · 10-20-2010, 06:57 AM

Wow, now my head is all messed up. I really want this Boxster I have lined up to buy Sunday but buying it and having to spend 2K+ on an upgrade right out of the box ...

The big question is do I give up my 330i zhp (2004, 49K miles) mint cond which I have all the confidence in the world will go 200K for a 99 986 with 30K garage kept well maintained, never driven in bad weather? Disadvantage of getting older, the practical / responsible side of you starts kicking in.

I'm looking for the thrill of owning / driving like I had with my 71 911T, will I get that from the Boxster?

Jake Raby · 10-20-2010, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Miller

Wow, now my head is all messed up. I really want this Boxster I have lined up to buy Sunday but buying it and having to spend 2K+ on an upgrade right out of the box ...

The big question is do I give up my 330i zhp (2004, 49K miles) mint cond which I have all the confidence in the world will go 200K for a 99 986 with 30K garage kept well maintained, never driven in bad weather? Disadvantage of getting older, the practical / responsible side of you starts kicking in.

I'm looking for the thrill of owning / driving like I had with my 71 911T, will I get that from the Boxster?

The choice is yours.. Is the thrill of owning the car worth the investment? Know that if you don't do the upgrade that a failure can occur and if it does happen the repair will cost more than the price of the car.

At least you know this now.. Many others don't find out until after the purchase is made or when a failure occurs. Two people I am working with now have experienced failures with cars they haven't even made the first payment on yet... Talking about being disgusted! The worst is the guy with the 996 that had it fail while being transported to him from the buyer.

With the proper necessary upgrades the cars are very good and reliable... Low mileage cars worry me because we see so many low mileage failures.. People think they can drive the car 2000 miles a year and never have to change the oil.. All that time the oil is saturating the outer IMS bearing seal.. It's not the mileage between oil services that matters most, it's the time the oil is in service.

Though you may be gun-shy it is better to be informed than being flanked by a full on failure out of the blue. People have called us in tears before, literally.

yelojkt · 10-20-2010, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Miller

Wow, now my head is all messed up. I really want this Boxster I have lined up to buy Sunday but buying it and having to spend 2K+ on an upgrade right out of the box ...

The big question is do I give up my 330i zhp (2004, 49K miles) mint cond which I have all the confidence in the world will go 200K for a 99 986 with 30K garage kept well maintained, never driven in bad weather? Disadvantage of getting older, the practical / responsible side of you starts kicking in.

I'm looking for the thrill of owning / driving like I had with my 71 911T, will I get that from the Boxster?

Have you not read of "permagrin" yet?

I have driven a few boxsters on the street and have rode in one that was driven badly when the owner was auto-Xing it for a day and that was a blast. I have to say that you will love it. I don't know if it will touch the flickability that you had with a 71 911 (has to be much lighter) but I do not know anyone who has driven a boxster for any amount of time and not loved it.

Jim Miller · 10-23-2010, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

Sounds like a classisc victim... Low mileage, clean, probably hasn't been driven enough to see short interval oil services, etc, etc.

Read this and the links that you'll find inside the article
http://www.flat6innovations.com/services/intermediate-shaft-retrofit

If you have the opportunity to ask the question that you have posted here, then yes you should have the IMS bearing retrofitted.

Thus far this week we have saved one engine from IMS bearing failure (just today) and have had 3 IMS failure calls come in from various parts of the country. One of those that failed did so at 27K miles.

Low mileage, clean cars that haven't been serviced frequently enough and haven't been driven hard enough are what we see fail most.. The other day someone asked me how he should drive his car to help avoid a failure... My answer??? "You can't drive it hard enough".

I understand the need for oil changes and driving in the proper RPM range but I don't see the benefit of driving the car hard. Seems like the driving hard will diminish life.

Jake Raby · 10-23-2010, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Miller

I understand the need for oil changes and driving in the proper RPM range but I don't see the benefit of driving the car hard. Seems like the driving hard will diminish life.

Thats what conventional wisdom would lead one to believe.. BUT we never see failures from engines being driven hard.. Maybe one call per year.

Very seldom do IMS bearing failures occur in race engines.. I tore apart one that had 50K track miles on it and the IMS bearing looked fine and it was even a single row.

Jim Miller · 10-24-2010, 05:24 PM

Well I bought it, 32K miles 1999 and its home and in my garage. Now I need to make the big decision of getting the IMS bearing replaced. I'm leaning toward it for piece of mind if anything. Thanks to all for the discussion.

Jake Raby · 10-24-2010, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Miller

Well I bought it, 32K miles 1999 and its home and in my garage. Now I need to make the big decision of getting the IMS bearing replaced. I'm leaning toward it for piece of mind if anything. Thanks to all for the discussion.

Glad to hear that you purchased it. If you'd like to chat via telephone I'd be happy to.
I can also get you in touch with some people who have had failures and others who had the bearing proactively replaced.

yelojkt · 10-25-2010, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Miller

Well I bought it, 32K miles 1999 and its home and in my garage. Now I need to make the big decision of getting the IMS bearing replaced. I'm leaning toward it for piece of mind if anything. Thanks to all for the discussion.

Congratulations! Please let us know how you like the little bugger after a couple weeks. And some pics would not hurt either. Happy motoring.

djw8282 · 11-02-2010, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Miller

I understand the need for oil changes and driving in the proper RPM range but I don't see the benefit of driving the car hard. Seems like the driving hard will diminish life.

Hey Jim.. I have driven my 2002 S from brand new..I racked up 92k miles in 8yrs by absolutely driving it like I stole it from day one. This car has been driven in all types of weather including snow. I also had a 99' that I drove in the same manner..I put 36k before getting the S. I had no engine problems with either car!

mikefocke · 11-03-2010, 03:59 AM

and that is what so many of us have to judge from. If it happens to you, it's common. If it hasn't, it must not be. And if it didn't, then your way of doing things must be right.

Somehow my statistics professor would laugh at our drawing conclusions that way but we all do it.

(And my sample of 2 isn't much better!)