Techno Torque 2

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Bobiam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFmLlwKD69w

I just read the Tech Q&A column in PCA's Porsche Panorama mag of Aug 2009. Someone wrote in to ask about the RSS IPD plenum product that was tested in the video. The answer indicates that if the dyno test appears to have been done with only a single dyno pull, then an install of the plenum, followed by another single dyno pull, then it's likely that much of the HP and torque gain was due to the gear oil being warmer on the second pull which by itself can account for between 10 and 30 additional HP. Unless the test were done with more respect to accurate dyno test procedures requiring multiple pulls, and the necessary miles to get the ECU to recognise the new plenum, the entire test appears invalid and misleading.

So, there is little evidence that the IPD product is worth anything, much less $1000+, and I'm not yet convienced that Pedro's product can provide a performance increase that is really noticable.

Like I said before, it's up to the readers of this forum to shell out the $260 or so to find out and report back to us via forum. Personally, I am not in a position to make this experiment unless I have Pedro's willingness to assist. I'm sure that like me, there are dozens of you that would be willing to provide feedback to this forum regarding Pedro's plenum product based on seat of pants evaluation. I agree with Pedro that subjecting the product to a real valid dyno testing is too expensive. I'd be happier with the opinion of several of you guys based on a real driver's test.

Bob

Maybe I'm giving the dyno guys too much credit here, but I would think they would warm up the engine before doing a pull to redline? Also, I would trust a real dyno way before the good old "butt dyno." So many people swear certain "upgrades" makes their car faster due to placebo effect, when in reality it's not any quicker and sometimes even be slower. While not perfect, a dyno is much more objective than we are and discrepancies are often due to user error more than the dyno itself.

[ppbon]

Originally Posted by Adam

Maybe I'm giving the dyno guys too much credit here, but I would think they would warm up the engine before doing a pull to redline? Also, I would trust a real dyno way before the good old "butt dyno." So many people swear certain "upgrades" makes their car faster due to placebo effect, when in reality it's not any quicker and sometimes even be slower. While not perfect, a dyno is much more objective than we are and discrepancies are often due to user error more than the dyno itself.

I don't tend to give dynos too much credit.
They generally do one or two runs and that's it.
They can completely skew results if the operator is not well versed on his machine.
Also with a dyno, you're not really putting a "real" load on the engine, as the car is stationary (on rollers) and the load depends on the dyno's program or operator input.
With an accelerometer you get real load on the engine, as the car has to accelerate it's own mass and cut through the air (drag). It's much harder to foul up results from an accelerometer, especially when you average out 10 runs.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

[Bobiam]

Originally Posted by Adam

Maybe I'm giving the dyno guys too much credit here, but I would think they would warm up the engine before doing a pull to redline? Also, I would trust a real dyno way before the good old "butt dyno." So many people swear certain "upgrades" makes their car faster due to placebo effect, when in reality it's not any quicker and sometimes even be slower. While not perfect, a dyno is much more objective than we are and discrepancies are often due to user error more than the dyno itself.

When making their video, in seconds they could have mentioned what prep was done for the dyno test in the interest of accuracy....they didn't. The whole point of Dyno Day was to establish credibility for the plenum product, so I'm surprised they did try harder to anticipate what suspicions we may have about the testing method.

Regarding seat-of-pants testing, knowing that I have a certain number of HP more than I used to is not as important than saying that I can feel it. And I do believe in the placebo effect as you describe it. That's why I want feedback from a bunch of Pedro Plenum buyers rather that the one or two that have reported so far. Also, there are two products from Pedro depending on the year of your car. We need results info on each.

I've read most everything posted anywhere on the RSS product. If it was cheaper, I'd probably want to try it. But for that price I can live without it. Pedro's, on the other hand is tempting due to price. I just want to be a bit more convinced that it really works.

Bob (cautious skeptic)

[Steve Tinker]

I love these discussions.....
I'll go along with Pedro on dyno's & their operators.
My experiences with dyno runs (mostly with motorcycles I must admit) is they are basically to give you just that - a baseline. Thats why SEVERAL runs must be made on the same day, preferably @ the same atmospheric temperature and humidity and (of course) on the same dyno.
On road engines (but not race engines) the first run nearly always shows the lowest HP and torque figures because a) the fluids are not always up to a highe enough temp (especially the transmission oils) and b) the engines have usually a lot of carbon and oil buildup in the rings and valves from normal day to day running.
Owners look shocked when they see chunks of carbon and soot emitting from the exhaust as their engines are opened up for the first time, quickly followed by the pall of oil smoke on the overrun after the first dyno run....
But its the 3rd or 4th hard run that gives you the baseline from which to compare engine outputs that really mean anything - that's when the engine is fully warmed up and the combustion chambers are cleaned out.
Pedro may well be fine tuning the basic Porsche design and for the cost, it won't break the bank (Christmas is not far away...)
I wonder if he has de-snorkelled his car as well as fitted the TechnoTorque splitter?

[ppbon]

Originally Posted by Steve Tinker

I wonder if he has de-snorkelled his car as well as fitted the TechnoTorque splitter?

I've been working on getting a little bit out of my car since the day I bought it almost 12 years ago.

I've de-snorkeled, added a hi-flo intake, installed the TechnoTorque, added headers, installed 100 cell cats, modified the muffler and remapped the ECU to accept all these mods and also to raise the rev limiter by 200 RPMs to 7,000.

Although it's only a 2.5 liter it can run with the 3.2s and 3.4s.

I love working on Boxsters and Caymans.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro