Techno Torque 2

[ppbon]

Originally Posted by blinkwatt

Oh my gosh....I was laughing soo hard at the start of your video.

"You've got to start everything with a smile"
That was one of my Dad's sayings.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

[Lil bastard]

Originally Posted by Kirk

I buy the overall concept as a lot of people swear by the IPD/RSS/Mike's Turbo plenum that's the same type of design, just higher quality. A couple points of note though:

You've got a GTech windshield mounted device serving as hard data with such a slight difference between the curves.... Why on earth wasn't a real dyno used???

Port and polish.... come on! What exactly are you porting? The part in question is PLASTIC. How on earth are you going to really port that without making the plastic walls thinner and more brittle? Are you maybe knife edging the outlet side?

I've had the T after the throttle out on my '00 Boxster S. I must be really lucky as mine was already smooth inside from the factory.... perfectly smooth inside, no resin flash, no seams, no need for a polish. That's specifically why I had it apart, to look for a port and polish opportunity there and I saw little, if anything, you could gain without likewise porting the throttle body and also potentially compromising the integrity of the part. Because of the way the stock hoses and throttle connect I also saw no gain from knife edging the part. So I'm certainly curious as to what you've done!

Other than these points (and I am very skeptical by nature) I think the product has some real potential.

Kirk

Good points!

The term 'polishing' is really a holdover from bygone days. Back then, it was thought that smoothly polishing the walls of intake runners produced less turbulent airflow.

In fact, computer modeling and real-time flow bench testing has confirmed that you really want a finely roughed surface, similar to that of a frosted glass. This is how F1 engines have been 'polished' for better than a decade.

This finely roughed surface better supports the establishment of a boundary layer along the intake runner walls allowing air to flow more smoothly over it.

[Burg Boxster]

Originally Posted by Lil bastard

In fact, computer modeling and real-time flow bench testing has confirmed that you really want a finely roughed surface...

Not true... you want a uniformly polished surface. It does not have to be imperfection free, mirror "shiny" polished for every application but rough is definitely not the goal. This per one of the top companies who proprietarily performs honing service for the likes of NASCAR, NHRA, IRL, CART and SCCA as well as for OEM applications.

PowerFlow Performance
Extrude Hone uses advanced surface finishing solutions, to remove rough cast surfaces that restrict horsepower efficiency of racing/performance components. By enlarging and uniformly polishing internal air and fluid passages, flow velocity is maximized.

More here

[Topless]

Kirk,
Don't underestimate the GTech as a useful tool for evaluating performance. Like a dyno or GPS datalogger, a windshield mounted accelerometer can yield very good results once you have a good baseline. insite did a comparison between the $200 GTech and a $2000 Traqmate GPS and the results were nearly identical. It looks simple and doesn't cost much but it does give very good real world (rubber on the road) performance data when set up and used correctly.

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by Lil bastard

Good points!

The term 'polishing' is really a holdover from bygone days. Back then, it was thought that smoothly polishing the walls of intake runners produced less turbulent airflow.

In fact, computer modeling and real-time flow bench testing has confirmed that you really want a finely roughed surface, similar to that of a frosted glass. This is how F1 engines have been 'polished' for better than a decade.

This finely roughed surface better supports the establishment of a boundary layer along the intake runner walls allowing air to flow more smoothly over it.

What the rough surface does is encourage a turbulent boundary layer, as opposed to a laminar one. The turbulent boundary layer is typically thinner and less "sticky" to both the bulk flow and the wall, helping the bulk flow.

In the case of mold flashing, however, if it's there, its bad for flow.

[Bobiam]

OK.... I've read everything. And I've watched Pedro's video. A few thngs bother me, such as Porsche substantially reducing the R and L tubes exiting the splitter at the same time that they increased the the engine size from 2.5L to 2.7L.
That sort of says that the capacity of these tubes is not all that important. So, is a little turbulence really a big deal? So, what does that mean for TechnoTorque?? Of course the smaller tubes also increase the velocity of the air at this point, and that may be to the engines advantage! Who knows?

I would like to believe the claims made by Pedro, as he is a respected straight shooter. But we really need some buyer/user input at this time. Both for the TechnoTroque and TechnoTorque2.

Readers want to know. Is there really a noticable and impressive difference in torque at these mid range RPMs??? Is there really a noticable or measurable MPG difference???

Considering Pedro's return policy, the only loss if a buyer is dissatisfied is one way shipping cost and a few hours labor.

Bob

[Sammy]

I ordered one as well and if the thing works as well as his customer service than I should get 50+ HP out of it! He responded extremely quickly to my questions and the part had a tracking number barely after I hit the "send" button on my email.

Thanks Pedro!

Sammy

[ppbon]

Originally Posted by Bobiam

OK.... I've read everything. And I've watched Pedro's video. A few thngs bother me, such as Porsche substantially reducing the R and L tubes exiting the splitter at the same time that they increased the the engine size from 2.5L to 2.7L.
That sort of says that the capacity of these tubes is not all that important. So, is a little turbulence really a big deal? So, what does that mean for TechnoTorque?? Of course the smaller tubes also increase the velocity of the air at this point, and that may be to the engines advantage! Who knows?

I would like to believe the claims made by Pedro, as he is a respected straight shooter. But we really need some buyer/user input at this time. Both for the TechnoTroque and TechnoTorque2.

Readers want to know. Is there really a noticable and impressive difference in torque at these mid range RPMs??? Is there really a noticable or measurable MPG difference???

Considering Pedro's return policy, the only loss if a buyer is dissatisfied is one way shipping cost and a few hours labor.

Bob

I've never claimed that there's an impressive difference in torque.
I've been stating that there's a gain of 6 to 8 extra foot-pounds of torque at 900 less revolutions.
That's roughly a 4% increase, depending on the particular car.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

[Stroked & Blown]

Originally Posted by Sammy

I ordered one as well and if the thing works as well as his customer service than I should get 50+ HP out of it! He responded extremely quickly to my questions and the part had a tracking number barely after I hit the "send" button on my email.

Thanks Pedro!

Sammy

Sammy, can you do a before/after dyno?
I'd be willing to donate a few bucks towards the dyno pulls so we can get some real numbers.

Pedro,
What is the install time on this piece?

[mptoledo]

I just cleaned my thottle body and noticed on my 2001 "s" that it had a curved throttle body(no splitter of course). After 60k miles it there was very little carbon build up. I don't know if it was due to the previous owner always using chevron w/techron gas, or just driving habits.

I am still very interested in the dyno of pedro's to see true HP gain.

Curious of how they secure the "splitter" in there. Is it epoxy or what?

[Burg Boxster]

Install, with cleaning the TB takes ~ 1 hr. w/o should be ~ 30min.

The TB's cleanliness has nothing to due w/ Techron fuel additives as only air and oil mist (from the AOS) flow thru the TB.

There definitely is a noticeable torque difference. Not so much in the peak power band, but lower starting around 2800 RPMs in my butt dyno experience. I've had mine installed for over 2 months now FWIW.

The splitter is secured w/ both epoxy and a machine screw from the outside (belt and suspenders kinda thing)

Thanks again Pedro

[ChrisZang]

For me it's simple:
Pedro is a very respected member of the board and a source of much trusted and helpful advise. I am 100% sure that when he made this product he stands completely behind it because he knows it works. This is NOT snake oil or Turbonator or whatever crap is out there. Yes it will not give you 50 hp or 50 lb of torque but it will add a little.

Long story short: I am planning to order one as soon as possible

[ppbon]

Originally Posted by mptoledo

I just cleaned my thottle body and noticed on my 2001 "s" that it had a curved throttle body(no splitter of course). After 60k miles it there was very little carbon build up. I don't know if it was due to the previous owner always using chevron w/techron gas, or just driving habits.

I am still very interested in the dyno of pedro's to see true HP gain.

Curious of how they secure the "splitter" in there. Is it epoxy or what?

... the claims are: peak of 6 to 8 more ft-lbs of torque at 900 less RPMs and a 1.5-2 better MPG at cruising speeds.
The HP curve should not change at all.
HP is made at the higher RPM range, where the car is sucking in 7,500 liters of air per minute (at 6000 rpm). With that volume of air the TechnoTorque doesn't do anything.
Torque is made at half that speed and is really needed below 3000 rpm, especially from idle where the car is only taking in 1,000 liters of air per minute (for a 2.5 liter engine). It's with these smaller volumes of air where we can gain a little efficiency and thus generate more torque.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

[mptoledo]

Originally Posted by ppbon

... the claims are: peak of 6 to 8 more ft-lbs of torque at 900 less RPMs and a 1.5-2 better MPG at cruising speeds.
The HP curve should not change at all.
HP is made at the higher RPM range, where the car is sucking in 7,500 liters of air per minute (at 6000 rpm). With that volume of air the TechnoTorque doesn't do anything.
Torque is made at half that speed and is really needed below 3000 rpm, especially from idle where the car is only taking in 1,000 liters of air per minute (for a 2.5 liter engine). It's with these smaller volumes of air where we can gain a little efficiency and thus generate more torque.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

Thanks for the reply Pedro. Oh, I enjoyed the video and thought it was well done. I don't remember if anybody asked this or if you covered it in your vid, but could you answer what kind of torque and mpg will I get on a 2001 "s" with the curved style throttle body "T"?

Thanks again and I cleaned my throttle body today, with your help of course! As i said above, I was suprised at the lack of build up in it even after 62k miles.

Side note: I think these are the types of mods a lot of us are looking for. If I can add "x" hp/torque and "x" mpg at a low cost, well that is better than adding x+1 hp and x+1 mgp at a high cost!! We have been talking about these kind of mods behind the scenes for awhle now and a few of us don't think it's worth spending $2k+ on a 15 or 25hp gain. For that money with any other car you get at least a 50 to 100 hp gain.

[chaudanova]

Curious, does the curved style plenum for the 00-04 models equally split up the air? Just wondering since by design, it looks like the curved plenum after the throttle body opening towards the end of the tee, might favor more air to one side...

Does the air splitter on the techotorque2 split any differently to accomodate for that, or does it not matter?

[Sammy]

Originally Posted by Stroked & Blown

Sammy, can you do a before/after dyno?
I'd be willing to donate a few bucks towards the dyno pulls so we can get some real numbers.

Pedro,
What is the install time on this piece?

I'll look into it and see what I can come up with. I am curious as to how much power I'm putting down with full exhaust and CAI and then add in the TechnoTorque. To be continued... maybe. (sorry, but have a lot going on right now so I might not be able to do it)

I will be getting it next week and will be doing an autocross that weekend so we'll see if it gets me out of the hole better at lower RPM's in 2nd gear.

[brewer69]

Just ordered one day from Pedro. He called me up and told me he doesn't accept credit cards. Just send me a check after you get it. Seems like a great guy and a man of his word. No hype, just results or your money back. For less than $300, what do I have to loose. IMO, the low rev range is where the boxster lags.

[Bobiam]

Originally Posted by ppbon

I've never claimed that there's an impressive difference in torque.
I've been stating that there's a gain of 6 to 8 extra foot-pounds of torque at 900 less revolutions.
That's roughly a 4% increase, depending on the particular car.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

Pedro: Not being a wise guy here, but is 4% really noticeable? The concept sounds great and the quality looks good, but unless the buyer can safely say "Hey, I can really feel the difference in 'power' and performance, why would we spend the money and labor.??

Another thing that bothers me is your video demo. Redirecting the air strean because the "wedge" compresses the air stream by removing turbulance may make the velocity of the air greater at the extra distance to knock down the foam discs, but it'[s not really delivering more air. Remember that the air is not being pushed into the intake manifold by a turbo or reversed vacuum system, but is being drawn or pulled in as the engine creates vacuum at the other end. That has a big effect on turbulance the way I see it. I'm not saying that the splitter concept doesn't work somewhat, but that the video test is not a valid measure or demonstration of the value of TurboTorque.

The bottom line is really the feedback that we get from customers who participate in this forum. For those who are willing to buy and try, are you fully willing to refund if we are not satisfied with the performance improvement??

Bob

[mptoledo]

Originally Posted by chaudanova

Curious, does the curved style plenum for the 00-04 models equally split up the air? Just wondering since by design, it looks like the curved plenum after the throttle body opening towards the end of the tee, might favor more air to one side...

Does the air splitter on the techotorque2 split any differently to accomodate for that, or does it not matter?

I will try to find the thread on the curved style plenum, If I remember right it says their is less gain on that type, as Porsche redesigned it themselves for improved performance.

[ppbon]

Originally Posted by Bobiam

Pedro: Not being a wise guy here, but is 4% really noticeable? The concept sounds great and the quality looks good, but unless the buyer can safely say "Hey, I can really feel the difference in 'power' and performance, why would we spend the money and labor.??

Another thing that bothers me is your video demo. Redirecting the air strean because the "wedge" compresses the air stream by removing turbulance may make the velocity of the air greater at the extra distance to knock down the foam discs, but it'[s not really delivering more air. Remember that the air is not being pushed into the intake manifold by a turbo or reversed vacuum system, but is being drawn or pulled in as the engine creates vacuum at the other end. That has a big effect on turbulance the way I see it. I'm not saying that the splitter concept doesn't work somewhat, but that the video test is not a valid measure or demonstration of the value of TurboTorque.

The bottom line is really the feedback that we get from customers who participate in this forum. For those who are willing to buy and try, are you fully willing to refund if we are not satisfied with the performance improvement??

Bob

4% in torque is 4%. Some people may feel the difference, others may not.
In my car I believe my AX times are a bit better due to the improvement.
Granted, I have always said that making just one change in your system doesn't always give you gains. In my car there are "a few" hacks through the intake/exhaust.
You need to modify intake and exhaust and the ECU needs to know that you've modified it by remapping (or chipping).
Many aftermarket exhausts claim 10-18 HP gains and many people never see those gains because they don't modify the intake and remap the ECU.
The video demo was made to illustrate within my means. I'm sure that I could spend a few thousand and do something more scientific.
I ain't getting rich from this venture. It's basically a hobby.
But, I believe the demo is valid, because it shows that with the same amount of air flowing through the tee (the output of the ShopVac) you gain more efficiency with the TechnoTorque by having it travel faster and further through the modified tee.
In my way of seeing things this is good.
You may not agree, and that's OK.
You don't have to purchase one, if you're not convinced that it's a good investment for you.
I'd like to sell one to every Boxster owner, but I know that ain't gonna happen
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro