Go Back   986 Forum - for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners > Porsche Boxster & Cayman Forums > Boxster General Discussions

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-08-2009, 08:39 AM   #1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Montgomery, Alabama
Posts: 14
Porsche Approved Oil List

Here's a question for the forum: If a brand/grade of oil was on a previous Porsche Approved Oil list (TSB), but is not on the current list, should it not be used solely because it's no longer on the approved list?

softroop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2009, 08:44 AM   #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 5,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by softroop
Here's a question for the forum: If a brand/grade of oil was on a previous Porsche Approved Oil list (TSB), but is not on the current list, should it not be used solely because it's no longer on the approved list?
Two schools of thought on the subject;

1. Why was it taken off the "approved" list? Reformulation? Loss of approvals (e.g.: ACEA A3, B3, B4)?

2. Does the "list" really mean anything in the first place?

Discussion: Feel free to argue endlessly and without factual support................
JFP in PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2009, 10:32 AM   #3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Surf City, NC
Posts: 1,079
The simplest answer is that all the Porsche "approvals" have expiration dates. Oil companies can request extensions.

The more complex answer is that things change. One would hope for proper technical, physics-based reasons.

Then: My Box came with recommendations for synthetic SAE 10W-40, 15W-40 or 15W-50 above 50 degrees F.

10W-40, 10W-30 or 5W-30 for below 50.

API rating SH or SJ. ACEA A3.

Now: It is 0W-40, 5W-40, or 5W-50. (I'm using 5W-40.)

API SH is now listed as "obsolete" on the API website, and even Porsche has approved oils with as low as API SM on the previous list. (I have not checked the new list for API ratings, and won't until my next oil change.)

From my study: API SL should be considered minimum, and SH or SJ preferred. And ACEA A3 or B3.

Additives for engine life like ZDDP have been reduced in recent formulations. Some say because they can damage cat converters and, by inference, the environment.

The current and previous approval list only specifies brands and viscosities. API and ACEA rating require research for each listed oil.

Does The List matter? Not a lot unless your car is under warranty. I do believe it is valid for the viscosity requirements.
__________________
Mike
04 Boxster S - Basalt/Savanna, 6sp, Carrera lites, hardtop
70 914-6 - Black over tan, original/stock
PCA since 1970
70Sixter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2009, 11:46 AM   #4
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 5,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by 70Sixter
I do believe it is valid for the viscosity requirements.
Wouldn't bet on that either................
JFP in PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2009, 01:09 PM   #5
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Surf City, NC
Posts: 1,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by JFP in PA
Wouldn't bet on that either................
Man, you are my kind of skeptic.
__________________
Mike
04 Boxster S - Basalt/Savanna, 6sp, Carrera lites, hardtop
70 914-6 - Black over tan, original/stock
PCA since 1970
70Sixter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2009, 06:38 AM   #6
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 526
I was wondering what you would put in a 60k mile 2001 boxster "s"?
I will use mobile 1 but I don't know what the "## W ##" means. what does the # in the equation stand for?
__________________
I'll take my Guns, Religion, and Money; You can keep the "CHANGE" B.O.!!

SO, GROW A PAIR NANCY AND DRIVE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT!!
http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/z...Main/MyBox.jpg

Last edited by mptoledo; 07-09-2009 at 06:49 AM.
mptoledo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2009, 06:50 AM   #7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 5,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by mptoledo
I was wondering what you would put in a 60k mile 2001 boxster "s"?
I will use mobile 1 but I don't know what the "## W ##" means. what are does the # in the equation stand for?
The"W" stands for "winter" or cold weather viscosity/weight; a "0W-40" oil has "0" in the cold.

I would not use any oil with a "0W" rating, regardless of maker. We only use a 10W-40 full synthetic with ACEA A3, B3, B4 ratings in all our customer's cars, and it gets really cold here....................
JFP in PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2009, 07:29 AM   #8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 526
Quote:
Originally Posted by JFP in PA
The"W" stands for "winter" or cold weather viscosity/weight; a "0W-40" oil has "0" in the cold.

I would not use any oil with a "0W" rating, regardless of maker. We only use a 10W-40 full synthetic with ACEA A3, B3, B4 ratings in all our customer's cars, and it gets really cold here....................
Cool, thanks, hey what does the 40 stand for?
__________________
I'll take my Guns, Religion, and Money; You can keep the "CHANGE" B.O.!!

SO, GROW A PAIR NANCY AND DRIVE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT!!
http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/z...Main/MyBox.jpg
mptoledo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2009, 08:14 AM   #9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 5,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by mptoledo
Cool, thanks, hey what does the 40 stand for?

The viscosity/weight when hot............
JFP in PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2009, 07:14 PM   #10
Porsche "Purist"
 
Paul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,086
Garage
0w-40 M1 is fine for our cars. M1 has put different additives in the oil to replace the ZDDP. (from a tech session at the Porsche Parade in Keystone last week.)

Please look at your warranty book and show me where it requires us to change the oil to maintain the factory warranty.
__________________
1998 Boxster with 7.8 DME, 2005 3.6 liter/325 hp, Variocam Plus, 996 Instrument panel
2001 Boxster bought new. Installed used motor at 89k.
1987 924S. 2002 996TT. PST2
Owned and repaired Porsches since 1974. Have driven them all the way the Dr intended...

Last edited by Paul; 07-10-2009 at 07:16 PM.
Paul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2009, 07:40 PM   #11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: rocky mountains
Posts: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul
0w-40 M1 is fine for our cars. M1 has put different additives in the oil to replace the ZDDP. (from a tech session at the Porsche Parade in Keystone last week.)

Please look at your warranty book and show me where it requires us to change the oil to maintain the factory warranty.
I missed that tech session because I was working elsewhere, but I did put the same question to the guy manning the Mobil 1 trailer, and he said that the M1 that we use will not break down between 15K intervals. I was concerned about annual oil changes with low annual miles, and he said that as long as our cars were fuel injected, M1 sitting for long periods of no use is no problemo.
It is the carburated cars that sit around, bounce around on trailers, etc, that causes the carb floats to stick or bypass, thereby dumping gas into the oil and contaminating it. But for us late model Porsche folks, especially Boxsters and later 911's it is the 40W (weight and viscosity) that is important in the M1 "european formula" (Porsches, Mercedes and BMW). The guy was a storehouse of knowledge about Mobil1 products for all cars and all the way up to his own Diesel tractor/trailer.
I can't tell for sure, but are these the same mugs used at the Beerfest?

Last edited by greesedc; 07-11-2009 at 07:42 PM. Reason: sp
greesedc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2009, 08:21 AM   #12
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 5,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul
0w-40 M1 is fine for our cars.
You might not be so quick to state that if you looked at UOA data collected over a couple of years.................I’ll reiterate what I said earlier: “I would not use any oil with a "0W" rating, regardless of maker.” Period.
JFP in PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2009, 12:46 PM   #13
Porsche "Purist"
 
Paul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,086
Garage
I've used it for more than 100,000 miles with no issues, no oil usage, and perfect oil tests by Blackstone. No emotion or religion, just the facts. Also my lifters do not clatter at start up.
__________________
1998 Boxster with 7.8 DME, 2005 3.6 liter/325 hp, Variocam Plus, 996 Instrument panel
2001 Boxster bought new. Installed used motor at 89k.
1987 924S. 2002 996TT. PST2
Owned and repaired Porsches since 1974. Have driven them all the way the Dr intended...
Paul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2009, 05:57 AM   #14
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 5,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul
I've used it for more than 100,000 miles with no issues, no oil usage, and perfect oil tests by Blackstone. No emotion or religion, just the facts. Also my lifters do not clatter at start up.
I'm happy that you’re happy. Unfortunately, we typically do about a dozen or so oil changes on customer's Porsche’s a week, and our collected results (and UOA's) do not back up your experience, particularly when you look at the performance of the same grades of oil in the same cars over time. Mobil has reformulated several of their grades as many as three times over the last five years or so, and oil testing has shown the changes have not always been positive ones. Sure, in many cases the oil could still be considered "OK" after low miles; but with many customers going 7,500 to over 10,000 miles between changes, and the results look a lot different. Throw in DE's and/or AX's (particularly in hot weather), and the results began to look absolutely dismal. Yet the same raced/abused cars running a 10W-40 ACEA A3, B3, B4 full synthetic (not a Mobil product) continued to have great UOA's after 10,000 miles and a lot of track time..................
JFP in PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2009, 07:31 AM   #15
Schatten-Baum-Mechaniker
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 242
where can i get a list of 10W-40 ACEA A3, B3, B4 full synthetic oils?

thanks.
__________________
Tommy
2000 Boxster S
1973 914
tommy986 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2009, 08:01 AM   #16
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 5,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy986
where can i get a list of 10W-40 ACEA A3, B3, B4 full synthetic oils?

thanks.
You'd have either check their websites for tech data sheets (assuming they have them which some do not), or visit a well stocked store and read the backs of some containers. Pay attention to the ACEA ratings rather than the API as ACEA requires the finished product to be tested in order to obtain ratings, while the API has shifted to a "self policing" and “component rating” mode since it became the public relations and marketing arm of the US industry rather than a watchdog............... You can find an ACEA "whitepaper" as a PDF file if you do a Google search, which will explain the meaning for their ratings system, which is very comprehensive.
JFP in PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2009, 08:34 AM   #17
Schatten-Baum-Mechaniker
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 242
JP,

from Mobil 1's site i see the following info:

Mobil 1 0W-40 meets key industry and car builder specifications for:

Mercedes MB 229.5
BMW Longlife 01

Porsche Approval List 2002
VW 502.00/505.00/503.01

GM-LL-A-025 (gasoline)
GM-LL-B-025 (diesel)

ACEA A3, B3/B4
API SM/CF



So it "says" it meets the ACEA A3, B3/B4 requirement, but you still don't recommend it?
I value your experience, so I am just trying to figure out what to get other than Mobil 1. Currently I am running Castrol Syntec 5w-40, which also says it meets the spec.

thanks.
__________________
Tommy
2000 Boxster S
1973 914
tommy986 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2009, 08:45 AM   #18
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 5,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy986
JP,

from Mobil 1's site i see the following info:

Mobil 1 0W-40 meets key industry and car builder specifications for:

Mercedes MB 229.5
BMW Longlife 01

Porsche Approval List 2002
VW 502.00/505.00/503.01

GM-LL-A-025 (gasoline)
GM-LL-B-025 (diesel)

ACEA A3, B3/B4
API SM/CF



So it "says" it meets the ACEA A3, B3/B4 requirement, but you still don't recommend it?
I value your experience, so I am just trying to figure out what to get other than Mobil 1. Currently I am running Castrol Syntec 5w-40, which also says it meets the spec.

thanks.
Then try Castrol's 10W-40 Syntec, great oil................
JFP in PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2009, 10:21 AM   #19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,690
Quote: "Then try Castrol's 10W-40 Syntec, great oil................"

Posted by JFP in PA.

So you're saying that the 5 weight in Syntec 5W40 isn't viscous enough to be recommended? (ie it's too much like 0W40?)
Frodo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2009, 12:12 PM   #20
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 5,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frodo
Quote: "Then try Castrol's 10W-40 Syntec, great oil................"

Posted by JFP in PA.

So you're saying that the 5 weight in Syntec 5W40 isn't viscous enough to be recommended? (ie it's too much like 0W40?)
No, I'm saying that experience (and a lot of UOA's) has shown the 10W-40 to be better.......the 5w-40 is not bad, just not as good as the 10W-40.....

JFP in PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page